I am not a native english speaker. Still i think the term Model would make it easier to unite 3 products in one as one of these 3 products is VirtuaGuy. This is surely not about political correctness. But why should i have different texts for the different products when i can just use one text for all of them.
As translator for the german version of the Software i sometimes already do replace Girl with Model and Card with show as the german translation for girl is a no go to be used in a software. Sometimes i also just leave Girl untranslated. It depends what looks better in the context. With the desktop settings i did replace girl with model for the 'Girls names'.

I ***** to refer to Motley Crue as an authority on the English language, but the song "Girls,Girls, Girls" really shows how the word is being used in the vernacular. In the context of strippers, I honestly do not believe someone could misconstrue the meaning of "girls." The only reason to switch to "models" is if you wish to be more formal.

This really is a tempest in a tea pot. I am a sexist or I wouldn't be watching naked girls dance on my desktop. However, I'm also a professional data modeler and database designer. About 2 years ago I created a database to help me manage my porn collection. That DB has a table named Model not Girl. At the time it felt like the better name since it helped explain why that girl was of interest. If I were documenting VirtuaGirl or designing the UI and no one told me what term to use, I'd use model. However, I'm in no way offended if girl is used. Actress and Performer are longer words that take more space and add very little information to model. Finding the right name for an entity is something I spend a considerable amount of time on professionally. My first choice is often not the best. A good name is worth the effort because it helps improve communication. My rule of thumb is to generally invest no more than 10 minutes on a single name, but sometimes we go way over budget to make the stakeholders comfortable.

For me and this thread I've consumed my budget for discussion.

Models is fine as it can cover women and men.

But honestly I don't think girls is derogatory in any way. I'll believe it when I see groups of women not referring to other women as girlfriends. Or when women don't get upset when you introduce them as a friend instead of your girlfriend.

I jest but seriously I have never seen anything that would leave me to believe Totem promotes ***** women.

As for the name VirtuaModel (VM) if you go that route just make sure it doesn't resemble the Microsoft or VMware logos for virtual machines. I would go for VirtuaG.A.L. myself aka "Get A Life" if someone wants to push the issue. :D

Whatever you want to use is fine but don't go changing it because you think girls refers to young girls. It is just a word used for the female sex and has no necessary implications of age attached to it.

It is most certainly not dated terminology and I can honestly say that is the first time I have seen that comment made on it and is rather baffling as it is a common everyday word. Certainly doesn't make the software appear unprofessional in anyway whatsoever, just lets us know that the models are in fact girls and not guys.

@Rich55, 'Dated' refers to Totem's main competition for the Adult industry dollar ie: live webchat ~ which these days always uses the term 'model' exclusively to describe its performers.

'Unprofessional' refers to the player Desktop skin labelling. The Totem player console hosts both male and female performers, but uses the word 'Girls' throughout to describe performers.

Well I am happy to say that all I have are Ladies.
The whole Guy thing is a bit weird (and where I am Utterly illegal)

All I want is for Totem to make back that half million dollars they lost last year and if it means making the player as seamless as it can be with the competition, ie: calling performers 'models', then so be it. We can't live in a vacume and expect change, we need those unplundered refugees from chat as new members. I'm with you btw..all femmes 4me lol.

Pretty much repeating what has been said before. Don't change the name but as far as settings and promo stuff would start changing out very to reflect "models".

I absolutely do not get the point what's wrong with the word "Girls" especially in the adult business.

Gogo Bars, Nightclubs and Strip Club have Girls! This is a Stripper site.

The whole adult business is based on respectless men otherwise you would not watch or pay for and the Girls would have to look for more serious jobs. There is no Dame here.

Girls, Babes, Chics and whatever are ordinary words for hot adult women around the world.

Senseless thread.

@Virt4B ...'The whole adult business is based on respectless men otherwise you would not watch or pay for...' I can't agree regarding internet adult work. I've found when moderating adult chat rooms with 2-3000 dudes in it for a while. Its never easy however thankfully those dudes who do pay the most in tips, are often those who show the greatest respect for the model, her skill, her pleasure & her session outcomes.

I don't see any relation between calling the girls "girls" and lack of income. Seems to me a pet peeve for some, nothing else.

In what way Totem gives the impression to follow the leads of other sites? And of hundreds of adult sites how many are still active after 15 years? If anything, other sites should be taking hints, not the other way around, IMO.

I'll just toss this out there..
In the Casting Business I'm pretty sure they refer to the clients as Models
Amateur Models
Nude Models
Adult Models

Very few of the Models that perform for Totem are actual "Strippers"
Strippers tend to want to keep a private life and are not looking to be filmed for VG.

Totem does get Porn Stars or Adult Film Actresses. But again, they usually are referred to as Models.

No one is asking for Totem to Change it's name "VirtuaGirl" - I did suggest that Totem secures the alternate domain if it's not already taken..

But on the Software,
I think the use of Model is better language than just Girl

That doesn't mean I think Girl is demeaning, or refers to a Young Girl..

I just think Model is the more appropriate language.
Totem can continue to use Girl. I'm fine with that.. no problem at all..

But Rex posed the question, so I'm giving my answer and opinion.

Hey Rex, thank you for asking your end users about their opinion.

Both 'Girl' and 'Model' work fine for me. Model does sound more respectful, so if given the choice and I had to choose one or the other I would go with Model.

Girl would just refer to any young female. 'Model' would refer to a female that has unique beauty that she is willing to show the world by modeling it, thus 'Model'.

But, really, who cares. I just want to see beautiful 'girls/models/babes/hotties' on my desktop getting naked.

@Wyldanimal

But it doesn't matter if they're not actual strippers in real life, they are performing a striptease show for us, they are removing all their clothes to entice the viewers. Thats all a stripper is. At the top of the website it says Free Desktop Strippers, not Free Desktop Models. Stripper is much more specific to the content of VG, and for the sake of clarity should be used instead of model.

It´s no sense, no word is offensive, what make it offensive its the context and the tone, so doesn´t matter wicht word we use, if it used in a respectfull way, and lets the girls or models decide.

I think if someone thinks the word girl implies young girl, it speaks volumes about their own guilty conscious. kind of like the people that freak out over a grown woman in a ***** outfit.

Hey necroman, shouldn't that be 'school model outfit'? pfhhh Next we can't tell dumb blond jokes?

This is all political correctness. Maybe if such ***** things bother people, just watch the dancing

don't read. Has anyone heard a woman call her boobs 'the girls'? Nuf said

I do not personally think that using model over girl adds any value to the product.

Leave it as is.

(1/2)

As you can probably summarize from the responses so far, 'models' seems to convey more respect and professionalism than 'girls'. Of course, like all the opinions above, mine is simply a personal view on the matter. Speaking as a linguist, I can state fairly confidently that language is what we make it be - but also what it has been in the past. For instance, when I think of 'a girl', I associate the concept with: 1) children 2) women who are not afforded respect as fellow adults. I base this knowledge on how I have seen the word being used in my personal past, within the social situations that I have observed from my point of view. This is not universally true, though. Some responses here do not see any problem with calling a grown woman a girl and may not even associate the word with a lesser status or any sort of unequal power relationship. Thus, there is no absolute true answer to this question: both 'model' and 'girl' mean different things to different people and the best you can do is to gather as much data as possible and make your call based on the knowledge you have.

I understand that there is some resistance to changing language 'artificially'. Calling a woman a model does not, indeed, change how you think of that woman now if you have thought about her as a girl for years or more. Change is, in most cases, more gradual and elusive. If you indeed need to refer to performers of various sexes and genders with one term, though, 'models' would likely convey what you need with very few problems, thus affording equal status to your performers.

Oh, and there is one thing in 91hebasu's post that I agree with: you could actually ask your performers. My personal hypothesis is that some of them might find girl more flirty, but I am sure you would get as many answers as you have models. English may not be their first language, but that does not mean that they do not have valuable opinions. The same goes for you, obviously.

TL;DR bonus, about language and neutrality:

There are a few posts here, like the post by The3LeggedMan, which do not see any real difference between the two words. I agree in the sense that if you call your performers girls, very few people would truly associate them with small children first. That being said, I do think that there is a subtle difference, related to language and power (I recommend reading critical discourse analysis theory if you want to study this further). Fortunately, it is possible to inspect this difference via linguistic intervention: we can substitute one word with another and see what effect it has on the meaning of a sentence. Consider substituting 'a man' with 'a boy' when talking about a grown adult. Let's look at a few examples. Why would you not let Matthew handle your finances in the sentences below:

"Matthew is a sweet man, but I would not trust him to handle my finances."
"Matthew is a sweet boy, but I would not trust him to handle my finances."

Similarly:
"Selma is a sweet woman, but I would not trust her to handle my finances."
"Selma is a sweet girl, but I would not trust her to handle my finances."

For respect:
"Anna is my secretary. She's a talented girl."
"Anna is my secretary. She's a talented woman."

"Matthew is my secretary. He's a talented boy."
"Matthew is my secretary. He's a talented man."

(2/2)

In the first examples, why is the person - either Matthew or Selma - not fit to handle your finances? Does calling the person a man or a boy, a woman or a girl alter your perception of their experience? Personally, I think that calling someone a girl or a boy in a sentence where they are not able to do something well calls attention to their relative inexperience/lack of knowledge. Feel free to think of other examples, too. Consider the two examples about respect as well. Do you perceive a difference? What if it was you? How would you feel if your boss said this to you after you finished a particularly demanding task:

"You are a talented girl."
"You are a talented woman."

"You are a talented boy."
"You are a talented man."

Ultimately, context is also important. I think you would be perceived poorly if you were to call your secretary a boy or a girl. In an office setting, you would be expected to respect your employees and co-workers and that respect should be apparent in the language you use. Obviously, we are not in an office setting here. Indeed, I am confident that you could easily continue calling your performers girls as well, though personally I would advise against it. It is, ultimately, a political decision - outlining a policy, so to speak. I am afraid that this issue is closely tied to a very powerful debate about how men and women should be perceived in various settings. That being the case, this may be a problem that you cannot solve by appeasing everyone - whatever you do, someone is going to have a political agenda or follow an ideology that is opposed to your decision.


EDIT:

It might be helpful to consider the words in a relevant context. Compare the original with a revised version, taken from VG Q&A:

Q: Where are the girls from?
A: Most of our models are coming from eastern Europe. As you'll see browsing our website, young girls are beautiful over there.
We also produce American girls from time to time in order to bring you the best of both worlds. Famous models as Sunny Leone, Aria Giovanni… also contributed to make our software unique (If you never experienced Crissy Moran half naked waking you in the morning, you don't know half of what computers have been made for...)

***

Q: Where are the models from?
A: Most of our models come from eastern Europe. As you'll see browsing our website, young women are beautiful over there.
We also produce American models from time to time in order to bring you the best of both worlds. Famous models like Sunny Leone, Aria Giovanni and more have also contributed to make our software unique. If you have never experienced Crissy Moran - half-naked - waking you up in the morning, you don't even know the half of what computers were made for.

Could also say "We also feature some models from across the globe to bring you the best the world has to offer." Of course, you have to consider whether the wording is true in that case. Certainly the focus on women from eastern Europe is apparent. Note slight revisions in grammar and wording in addition to the girl/model issue.

Seriously? Hell, no! There's no need to change anything. Totem should be proud about their product an that's it!

I voted yes because I think that "Models" and "Shows" sound a lot better than "Girls" or "Cards".

I also think it is a sign of respect towards the models.

In Paris, at the cabarets (Folies Bergères, Lido, Moulin Rouge, Crazy Horse,...) the women that do the shows are called "girls" (remember The Bluebell Girls). So I think that the girls who do the shows in VG and DB should be called "girls".

If one wants to avoid language issues as much as possible and with different language issues internationally, than substitute girls and possible other terms by their product name, as already mostly is in the forum.

The history of language teaches that many things can be done with words, to 'raise' or 'lower' relative in social interaction, although one could question if such really is as 'perceived to be'.
Treat another as you yourself would want to be treated mindthought, although socially in the activity of tease other social standards for us to see here are often used and outside of such they are referred to as models in casting here, although, as is in general, marketing and business are implied. But if one would want people to be teased, why would one use the term model in such activity?

In 'there is no I in we' for example, this goes both ways as well, as we can be socially engaged and we can be led by social socalled standards and it can also be used to personify and depersonify, as in are you only your gender, job or status? Within such one finds meaning and demeaning, although one step from the person, the core. To know oneself and to define oneself, but a model can just as well be an object or a puppet and an actor can imply acting and what a show or performance should enfold can be debatable, similar to what art is and who can be called an artist is, although widely accepted socially or economically.

As for 'enforced' socalled standards, cosmetic surgery was originally intended for dire need and media screwed many things up with cosmetics in my opinion as people are trying to live up to images which most of them aren't even real to begin with, although I have now diverted to personal rambling, people must do what pleases them, just hopefully not loose themselves in such process.

Terms used to define oneself aren't as important as the people being defined by them, not to forget that the term girls has also been used as empowerment as well. In the activity of teasing and intimacy even boy can be used in a positive sense and history has also known quite a few feminine uprisals and I do understand why one would desire alternative terms for demeaning interpretations of such through time, but by whom or by what would one rather be teased comes to mind.

As for terminology in settings and sites, the term model could also be used, might explain the small price increase ;) Oddly enough is that the term model actually sounds more demeaning as a person to me, media screwed that image up for me.

As for VirtuaGirl, any more options on shows a la Burlesque or GoGo Dancers, max is ten, I see possibilities for a Moulin Rouge show or some good feather dances :)

I think people should be free to use what they prefer. I myself use model a lot, but that is more to be sensitive to conservative views rather than because I have a problem with the world girl.

In English language, the word girl is often used to donate a mature women. Women often refer to each other as girls, especially in familiar and social settings. In that sense, it has a positive context as it suggests familiarity, youthfulness (but not young), playfulness and fun. All the concepts that this site represents. To suggest that conventional use the word girl can in some way suggest anything inappropriate is ridiculous.

The only restriction that should be made is that the word girl should NOT be used with the word young. The term 'young girl' does refer to a ***** and would of course be inappropriate.

On an adult site like this, I would always interpret the word girl as meaning mature woman by default. There is no ***** to me.

So feel free to use both model and girl. Perhaps use the word model in more serious and official posts, while using the word girl in more fun posts.

Personally, I will use both regardless of what Totem do.

The3LeggedMan: "Women like to be reminded of their youth and beauty and femininity, and "girl" captures all that."

Apasas: "To suggest that conventional use the word girl can in some way suggest anything inappropriate is ridiculous."

I believe that there are contexts where calling someone a girl can, indeed, be inappropriate and have other meanings than youth and beauty. Moreover, calling someone a girl might draw attention to their youth and beauty when it is not appropriate. Again, any office context can be highly applicable for this scenario: an employer calls an employee a girl, seeing no problem with her/his use of the word. The employee gets offended, because she does not want to be thought of as a girl (feeling that it belittles her or her achievements, for example).

I believe feowertig makes a similar point, indicating that any word (e.g. model) can be problematic. That is, 'girl' is not automatically problematic and 'model' is not automatically unproblematic. Respectful and professional language use often goes beyond single words, though even a single word can alter how a message is perceived. Of course, there are multiple interpretations about what respectful and professional language use actually is.

Considering the client's desktop settings specifically:

"Maximum girls"
"Girls' name" (Girl's name or girls' names?)

"Maximum models"
"Model's name"

In this very limited context, I do not feel that using 'girl' is in any manner demeaning, although I am not sure if it is flirty or inviting either. In the larger context of language use throughout the software and the home page, I think using 'model' might still be more respectful. I would correlate a model with a consenting adult who has professional knowledge, as opposed to a young thing that just happened in front of the camera. Having watched a fair share of shows, I can tell that these models seem know what they are doing. Naturally, a lot depends on what sort of message you want to convey and there may be listeners/viewers who will receive the message in a way you did not intend.

"Maximum VirtuaGirls"
"VirtuaGirl's name"

This works in translation to other languages as well, as it does not get translated as being a product name.
Throughout the site and software it already is in effect mostly, only these examples aren't.
If one has issues with the product name(s), that's another story :)
Kind regards,
Eddy

This post has made me consider my use of terminology on this site.

I will now use the term girl much more often than before. I think it is an appropriate respectful way to refer to a model. I will still use the word model though.

Everyone else, including Totem, can do what they like. That is consistent with my option 2 vote.