TheEmu, I didn't write that it doesn't exist elsewhere. I'm saying it's inappropriate here.

@Boorlom - if you didn't write it then why is it in this post of yours?

http://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/43251/1?post=639312

Всё о iStripper / Special Event Card - Why?

Sorry, but I did not translate your text, because it makes no sense. I don't want to waste my time. This is not a rare thing, which can be a long debate or brag to friends . It's just porn. This morni...

...***** Airlines is a good example of that. Likewise, the Halston brand of clothing was originally for the swanky rich and they were doing quite well . . . until they decided to make a more affordable line sold through J. C. Penney's...

All real companies selling real products in actual locations. 'Limited edition' sales models fall apart in cyberspace...

@POPEYED

Just what is your problem?

Personally I dislike the Special Events offering "exclusive" cards (and have said so several times)

and I really dislike the gambling games (and have said so several times).

I wish Totem had never introduced either of these features and had stayed with simply selling the cards.

However, when others claim that similar features are rarely used elsewhere when in fact they are quite common I feel that it it is worthwhile pointing out that this is not true - even though I wish that it was.

What is any of our problems really??? (speaking in general)

I mean I could start listing my problems but it would just stretch to infinity and beyond! 😜👌

NEway... the "Upgrade to Premium" text next to "iStripper" is still ***** to look at...it reminds me of when you get an eyelash in your eye! 👎😆

@shodan084 - I am not an on line games player, but Nitendo would seem to disagree with ypu

Nintendo Switch Online is a suite of features on the Nintendo Switch video game console requiring purchase of a subscription. Nintendo Switch Online features include online multiplayer, cloud saving, voice chat, access to a library of Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) and Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) games, as well as other promotions and offers. Following a period where some of its features were available to all users at no charge, the subscription service officially launched on September 19, 2018.

I miss the good old days of VirtuaGirl when you could simply just buy a card that you liked without any of these other complications.

I've been BUYING cards here as a "Loyal Customer" since 2008. If you want to screw around with turning people into "gambling *****" to get them to spend outrageous amounts of money with no guarantee of winning the card(s) they want, do it to the NEW customers. Let me...a LOYAL customer for over 10 years...just BUY the damned card if I want it.

Is Totem LOSING MONEY because I refuse to gamble to get the cards I want? They most certainly are. They are losing MY money because I refuse to spend it by having to gamble it for the card(s) I want to BUY. I have ALREADY spent money that I used to spend here at other sites (and they aren't related to Totem in any way) to get pics and videos of many of the models available here.

Case in point? Sky Blue has 7 cards currently. I would have bought ALL of them if I didn't have to GAMBLE to get ONE of them, but I haven't bought ANY of them because she is (or has become) a "milk the customer for as much money as possible" model. So Totem has lost SEVEN purchases from me instead of just one. I get Sky Blue pics and vids from other sites where I spend my money for them to just BUY them instead of having to gamble to get one of them there. And that applies to other "event card" models here too. There are MANY other model cards I would have BOUGHT here if I didn't have to gamble to get ONE of them for that particular model.

Totem already gives me a DISCOUNT for being a previous BUYER of cards in enough quantity to be considered "loyal". If they want me to REMAIN loyal, LET ME BUY THE CARDS I WANT WITHOUT HAVING TO GAMBLE to get them. If they want to charge me FULL PRICE without my discount for the "event card", I could even live with that. But quit treating me like a brand new customer you want to turn into a gambling ***** to milk as much money from as possible. That is just an incredible insult to someone who has been a loyal card BUYING customer for over 10 years.

You'll still make increased profits from the "gambling *****" you create, while continuing to reap the profits from my card PURCHASES I would make (but don't make now by my refusal to participate in gambling BS).

Screw your new customers AND keep your old LOYAL ones at the same time.

Nintendo sales for the Switch are up, but Nintendo quaterly sales are actually down another 10%... so not really... :)

I've been BUYING cards here as a "Loyal Customer" since 2008. If you want to screw around with turning people into "gambling *****" to get them to spend outrageous amounts of money with no guarantee of winning the card(s) they want, do it to the NEW customers. Let me...a LOYAL customer for over 10 years...just BUY the damned card if I want it.

Is Totem LOSING MONEY because I refuse to gamble to get the cards I want? They most certainly are. They are losing MY money because I refuse to spend it by having to gamble it for the card(s) I want to BUY. I have ALREADY spent money that I used to spend here at other sites (and they aren't related to Totem in any way) to get pics and videos of many of the models available here.

Case in point? Sky Blue has 7 cards currently. I would have bought ALL of them if I didn't have to GAMBLE to get ONE of them, but I haven't bought ANY of them because she is (or has become) a "milk the customer for as much money as possible" model. So Totem has lost SEVEN purchases from me instead of just one. I get Sky Blue pics and vids from other sites where I spend my money for them to just BUY them instead of having to gamble to get one of them there. And that applies to other "event card" models here too. There are MANY other model cards I would have BOUGHT here if I didn't have to gamble to get ONE of them for that particular model.

Totem already gives me a DISCOUNT for being a previous BUYER of cards in enough quantity to be considered "loyal". If they want me to REMAIN loyal, LET ME BUY THE CARDS I WANT WITHOUT HAVING TO GAMBLE to get them. If they want to charge me FULL PRICE without my discount for the "event card", I could even live with that. But quit treating me like a brand new customer you want to turn into a gambling ***** to milk as much money from as possible. That is just an incredible insult to someone who has been a loyal card BUYING customer for over 10 years.

You'll still make increased profits from the "gambling *****" you create, while continuing to reap the profits from my card PURCHASES I would make (but don't make now by my refusal to participate in gambling BS).

Screw your new customers AND keep your old LOYAL ones at the same time.

Lol. you skipping 5 cards costs totem $8. Many customers have paid 50$ for a special event card...and probably hundreds of $ for the entire set. Don't blame totem. Blame the fools who spend hundreds for a non-special card just to have a complete collection. This is the world we live in. People spend thousands of dollars to win at mobile games, thousands to win at pc games. People are stupid, but people are free. The only issue I would have with totem is if the product stayed stagnant while they milked these people. Well the product has improved in a number of ways since from quality, to talent, to costumes, to sustainability. Nearly every entertainment service works this way from phones, to movies, to video games. People spend hundreds of dollars to go to a movie and get booze and high quality food, but that money will make its way down to make a better facility overall.

You're absolutely right. People are suckers when it comes to marketing designed to get them to pay outrageous prices for something that isn't that high quality . $50 for a single card? Stupid, stupid, Stupid.

Of course, the only way to get a merchant to quit doing that is if enough customers take their money elsewhere.

BTW, it's not only 5 cards I'm not buying anymore. It's ANY models cards that have an event card now or in the future that I can't just outright purchase at a REASONABLE price. Like the newest Red Fox card that just showed up as a regular purchase card. Screw that. I already own the OTHER 18 cards that I COULD purchase, but Totem insists that I can't get her "event card" unless I gamble for it. Well, if that's the case, I'm not buying any more of her new "for purchase" cards either. And when I run out of my latest $50 credits purchase, I'm probably taking ALL my money elsewhere. No more $50 credit purchases either. I can get my jollies somewhere else without getting screwed after 10 years of supporting the company.

BTW #2: I would never be a "Full Collection" buyer anyhow. Hell, I only own 1000+ cards now. But even then, it would take me over THREE SOLID MONTHS to just sit and watch all of those clips. That's without any sleep, potty breaks, or anything else. Congrats to all the people who have all the cards in their collections (4000+). They could never watch all of them again even if they wanted to. Not enough time. I'm not knocking collectors, but let's get real about how long it would take to watch over 4000 model cards. So I hope they aren't collecting them for a future investment return, like baseball cards. 😉

You're absolutely right. People are suckers when it comes to marketing designed to get them to pay outrageous prices for something that isn't that high quality . $50 for a single card? Stupid, stupid, Stupid.

Of course, the only way to get a merchant to quit doing that is to take your money elsewhere.

BTW, it's not only 5 cards I'm not buying anymore. It's ANY models cards that have an event card now or in the future that I can't just outright purchase at a REASONABLE price. Like the newest Red Fox card that just showed up as a regular purchase card. Screw that. I already own the OTHER 18 cards that I COULD purchase, but Totem insists that I can't get her "event card" unless I gamble for it. Well, if that's the case, I'm not buying any more of her new "for purchase" cards either. And when I run out of my latest $50 credits purchase, I'm probably taking ALL my money elsewhere. No more $50 credit purchases either. I can get my jollies somewhere else without getting screwed after 10 years of supporting the company.

I think it hard to admit that we do not control the market. The big spenders control the market. Those with disposable income are the ones that matter most to totem. Those like us, who spend $20 a month are expendable. They are a reputable company but they can't ignore the fact that some people will spend hundreds a month for something that use to cost $1.30. And to be honest, It might allow us to get the very top talent on the market instead of waiting for girls to age and lose popularity or have to get girls before they become big. If they brought in an American starlet, had her do 3 special event, and 3 normal cards I would fine with it.

Reading this thread I do not believe that now. Just because it is now standard practice in other businesses, should we accept this and look for good? Pokemon, Backstage, Really?
As long as these damned SECs are there, we will certainly continue to express our displeasure, quite sure.

@SetFuego

I have said nothing about whether or not you should accept the practices of Special Event cards or Gambling Games. In this thread I have only said that people who claim that other businesses do not use such practices are wrong.

From Totem's point of view if these practices increase their profit then then they will be attractive to them no matter how unattractive they are to us. Even if all of those that find the practice objectionable were to stop buying this would probably hardly be noticable - according to Totem's affilliates web site the average "customer retention" is only 5 months so they seem to "lose" many more customers each month than they would lose via a protest against SEC cards. Of course they would prefer to satisfy, and keep, everybody and have said that they are introducing other ways to obtain the cards as rewards for loyal customers but it remains to be seen how successful that will be. Also note that it is not the long established customers that buy the most - I can only buy 365 cards a year, other more picky long time custiomers may buy one or two hundred cards a year but many new customers buy more than this each month some have been known to buy one or two thousand cards in a single month.

The only issue I would have with totem is if the product stayed stagnant while they milked these people. Well the product has improved in a number of ways since from quality, to talent, to costumes, to sustainability.

I ***** SECs, but I have also to admit that @orclover really has a point there.

I haven't purchased a single card since this special event nonsense started. A lot has changed since I joined up, some good, some bad.

Do I think it's a bad business practice? Yes.
Do I think it shows a complete lack of loyalty to long time customers? Yes.

For Totem it really comes down to how can they best rid people of their money? Offer the cards at normal price? At an increased price? Make people gamble multiple times more than the card is worth and maybe get it if they are lucky?

For each of us that think special event cards are disrespectful, money milking nonsense. There's probably 3 people willing to throw away their money to try and get them. So for Totem it probably is worth losing members because the overall net gain for them is high.

I for one have come to accept the multiple cards on my wishlist will never be purchased. 10 years ago Vgirl was essentially an adult entertainment site where you came and bought a product. But they decided to push a more gambling aspect to it. I disagree with it and I won't buy anything else from them while they restrict certain cards for gambling purposes.

But at the same time I won't slag them off for it, back in the day Totem were giving me a free card every week and I wouldn't be double diamond without that. Now they have gone the other way and make it harder to get some things because you can't straight buy them. That's their choice. If they feel it is working for them, cool.

I don't agree with them on moral grounds which is why I won't be spending any more money on this company in the foreseeable future. But I'll still come around from time to time to see what's new.

It's interesting for me that I first saw this discussion about SE cards back in March/April, I come back today and the same topic is still rife. The only thing I can say is Totem are clearly ignoring their customers. For a topic to still be constantly brought up six months on, there clearly must be a lot of people angered by it.

At the end of the day, Totem do not care about us or our thoughts. They are a business, money is what they want. They will do things some people won't like, if it's genuinely a problem to you speak with your wallet not your words. Words won't be heard, loss of income will.

The rare state of pokemon crads compaired to totem SEC cards is quite irrelivent. and funny too me

For one pokemon cards, or Magic The Gathering cards, the rareones have been phyically produced in a finite quality, one time printing. This has a demonstrable specific cost to produce just that card only 30 times.

In the case of digital goods like SEC, are infinelty reproduceable and no extra cost on top of the orginal production value.. The rarety is false,

In the case of backstage concert passes. Well they are rare and in limited availablity for a very real reason, They cannpot sell mopre than say 5 or 10 becuase they cant have the entire mopd of 100 thousand concert goers backstage. Thus tha exclusivity, rtarely and extra cost has tangible value

In the case of SEC cards theres no such limit, aside for the ,limit artifically created

Analogies are bad

i dont know who saids "its a privage to buy cards", what balderdash, its a privilage for totem we choose to spend money on credits (to purchasde cards). Ity should never be a privage for a customer to spend money for a product..,

All,

I have noticed reading back that some comments are were getting borderline with *****. Please keep your comments respectful and park the attitude please.

Otherwise continue with your comments both for and against, that is your rights.

@Yuufa - the point was that the limited availability of both rare Pokemon cards and the iStripper SEC cards is a completely arbitrary choice made by the producer. In both cases the producer could have easily made more at little or no cost and sold more but chose not to. In both cases the rarity is totally artificial. This is a common business practice and has been so since at least the time that mass producion of mechanically reproduced art - i.e. since the printing of books became practical. It has always be common in the "fine art" print market, and continues today even in the case of prints from digital photographs.

I'll never own any of these until there is a straight forward way to get them period. I will not be tricked into or spend mass credits for likely nothing. Logic won't change that or make me feel sorry for the company when people don't like it. They have not handled these things properly and to me thats the problem. You can justify all you want. Something is wrong if your haveing to debate it back and forth everyday logical or not. They can do this better so no one looses out and still make a profit end of story gents. And comparing something you can outright buy no matter the price tag or things you can actually sell, trade after the sale (Pokemon/Magic) is rather pointless IMO.

@DANO70

You seem to be completely misunderstanding what I have been saying.

I am not in any way trying to justify anything. I don't like the SEC cards or the gambling games either. However people repeatedly claim that

1) Totem are losing money when they use these practices

2) Such practices are rarely encountered elsewhere

Neither of these claims are true. I can't actually prove that Totem make money by them but they do have the data to know whereas we do not. I doubt very much that they continue to do something that they know adversely affects their profits.

As far as the second claim is concerned I will try to make it even clearer. The practice I have been refering to is that of artificially making something rare and then either selling it directly at an inflated price or (as is the case with trading cards) requiring some sort of gamble (e.g. buying packs of cards without knowing their contents) in the hope of getting a particular card. This has long been a common feature of many businesses both in the physical world and now in the virtual word, for example "loot boxes" in games. What the people can do with the goods after they purchase them makes no difference at all to this basic practice though it can affect how attractive such practices are to them.

I have expressed no opinion as to whether such practices are disreputable or not (in fact I find them mildly distasteful), only about their effectiveness and how often they are used elsewhere.

Can I comment as an impartial observer to this debate? Well I will anyway, and it is not as a moderator.

From what I have seen, TheEmu, is being clinical in his comments. He is merely stating what to me are reasonably self evident facts and he goes to some considerable effort to differentiate his logic against his personal unhappiness with the use of the Special Event cards.

So maybe instead of arguing with TheEmu, look purely at his logic and understand that its not his personal opinion.

The two can be totally separate things.

Cheers

Logic? TheEmu writes about simple and banal things that all users know about.

When I wrote about the idea of one man, I did not mean that he invented gambling, but that he decided to implement it in this company.

In the ' 90s, I had a friend who regularly played slot machines in several clubs (the clubs were small no more than twenty machines, but there were a lot of takers). He was able to calculate the algorithm in several machines (with old machines it was real, now it is not). And started winning. He tried not to attract attention, began to visit less often, as it seemed to him. The scheme was simple: he made several attempts, then gave way to others and tried to understand what step is the cycle. If he succeeded, he asked to give way for 10-15 without winning combinations. He was spotted quickly enough and ***** professionally with a single stab to the heart.

I have not once seen parents in regular grocery stores trying to win a soft toy for their ***** by making a large number of attempts. Although any toy from these machines can be bought in the store. Human excitement without borders.
And TheEmu thinks that if a person refuses to play, then he does not know about the existence of such games? Very strange.
I called this topic not " Special Event Card - what is it?", and " Special Event Card-Why?". in full: Why is it here? I know what it is, but I ***** to see it here.
There is not a happy star, there is a clear algorithm, roughly speaking, a line in the program that eccentrics sometimes allows to win.

Having the money and in the mood for a little fun I did play one of the events a while back. But learning that cards are now being gated exclusively behind gambling mechanics sullies the service for me personally.

I don't fancy debating have vs have-not, profit>ethics, or the inherrant trappings of gaming as a whole.
Simply to say that far too many services I see are going this route and I recognise iStripper has a monopoly in this particular market.

I wish it was not the case but this will likely give me pause in deciding future credit purchases.

@Barloom

I have not once seen parents in regular grocery stores trying to win a soft toy for their ***** by making a large number of attempts.

I have, however, often seen both men and teenage boys trying to win a soft toy for their girlfriend, wife or ***** in a fairground by buying lotto (raffle) tickets. Such stall are one of the most common attractions at German fairs. It is almost impossible to win one of these toys for less than about ten or twenty times what they would cost in a normal store (but you are unlikely to find one in a normal store because they are of too low a quality for almost any normal store to stock).

And TheEmu thinks that if a person refuses to play, then he does not know about the existence of such games?

I think no such thing. I think that in most cases that the player does know about such things but decides to play anyway. In many (possibly most) cases the decision to do so is illogical but people are known to do so anyway - this is often because most people do not understand probabilty which is a major reason why it is profitable for the providers of such games (such as Totem) to offer them.

Logic? TheEmu writes about simple and banal things that all users know about.

This is quite true, at least the first part of the sentence, I write about them because people here are often saying that are in contradictiction to these simple banal things, It seems that a lot of these posters either do not know or are deliberately ignoring this knowledge. Indeed to a large extent that is why I keep on making the points that i do - these things should be "***** obvious", to use a typical English phrase, but people keep on claiming exactly the opposite is true.

The Emu, unfortunately in my country, sometimes these machines put not only cheap toys, but also a few expensive and slightly larger. And the mechanical arm is adjusted in such a way that it cannot lift them.

I am very sorry that there is a ban in the contract on the sale of potentially good-selling goods. It was possible to simultaneously sell these cards for more credits and play in various events. Recently, I buy selectively, want to have a collection of only favorites. I am ready to pay 1000 credits for a card with a favorite, but I will not play.

@Boorlom - I was not thinking of that type of fairground attraction. In Germany a common travelling fair stall simply sells small envelopes containing tickets awarding you a random number of points that you can accumulate and cash in for a cheap fluffy toy. Quite why anybody bothers to buy a ticket is beyond me because the value of the toys are far less than what you need to spend to get them - but they are surprisingly popular. Unlike other kinds of stall, such as hoop-la or the grabber machines, there is no pretense that any skill is involved.

Edit: When I said I do not understand why anybody bothers with these "attractions" I was forgettng the combined effects of ***** and a girlfriend demanding that you try to win a cuddly snake or whatever this years star prize happens to be.

Indeed to a large extent that is why I keep on making the points that i do - these things should be "***** obvious", to use a typical English phrase, but people keep on claiming exactly the opposite is true.

The amount of time you have dedicated to the crown, stepping on those who have a different opinion to you is... admirable, in a way. ;)

@shodan084 - which of the following statements do you disagree with

1) Totem are profiting from offering SEC cards and games.

2) Other businesses use similar practices.