@all. I Just updated Kira Thorn's XXX ~ Wildfire card
and am now missing the 9 minute xxx clip !!
Total length of card clips is now 32.56 minutes
NOT the 42 minutes as stated on her 'Girls'Page.
Could be a download error however could someone
please check before and after updating & confirm this change ?:-/

**Comment to Loosecannon**
I'm a Deskbabes-User and I'm fighting myself insane to get the Old Format XXX Cards back. This another "Regular Card" idea of XXX is just unreasonable, end of story... Peeple who does like the Original iStripper Cards just should stick with those cards instead wanting our Type of card aswell. I think it is selfish at highest level, sorry 😫

Totem Entertainment
So, Totem Entertainment please give us back our Old XXX Format Card!, the Deskbabes-Community wants it back!😪 And it will solve alot of issues and conflicts. Let the Regular Card Community decide over the Original iStripper Cards but give us back our type of card, so we can enjoy new upcomming models aswell.

I am a user that was very angry with the company when the American studio closed, and then we were only given girls from 1 country for a couple of months after that. It took me some time, and a couple of hot girls to relax and realize that totem is try to do their best to make us happy, but also not go bankrupt again. They may not be paying less for xxx cards but they have the data that shows the old format doesn't make money because of their increased cost but also because people find them boring. My frustration was actually with the user base not totem because the user base was driving the sales, or non-sales in the case of american girls. The user base is driving the non-sales on deskbabes. Totem is responding intelligently to this loss of money. There are many decisions that they make that costs them money but are attempts to keep customers happy:

1. Free HD picture sets that only 40% of the user base look at, and fewer download
2. Free HD movie that many don't watch
3. Sales and discounts, especially for frequent buyers, those with 2-3k cards aren't going to stop buying but totem shows appreciation with massive discounts.
4. XXX cards, it would be really easy to stop producing them, and wouldn't be shocking...we just would not have dildos in our cards anymore.
5. And last December they had a bug in their system that allowed people to get many free cards if they were aware. Totem let this go and did not take the free cards back which must have cost them money.

I would have peace with the current compromise, logic tells us it will probably end, and xxx cards will be phased out or absorbed into istripper as "vip"cards.

**Comment to Orclover**

There are many decisions that they make that costs them money but are attempts to keep customers happy:

But I'm not happy, my entertainment is gone...no more upcomming cards of new models for me anymore because they stopped producing the Deskbabes type of Card, It suppose to be "Untouched" exact as "Regular iStripper" Cards they can improve categories but they never should change the type of card. I embrace the clear difference between two types of cards, only that will attract more customers to buy more cards, from different types of customers. With only one type of product you only attract one group of costumers.

I dont give a damn 'How often' they produce a XXX Card, but if they do it suppose to be in Full XXX Old Format. how it was. Even if they release just 'one' single XXX Card a month, it should stay a Deskbabes Card. And dont fool me, Totem Entertainment already said the produce cost now is exact the same as with the Deskbabes Cards. Yeah, Original Regular Community are mostly likely not buying "Deskbabes Cards" but they have Regular Types of Cards. And as I said, I dont really care they reduce the production of XXX Cards to 'once a month' aslong it stays the same Type of Card, The Deskbabes Cards.

because people find them boring

And this is a really personal conclusion. So, because majority of the Original Regular Cards Community says it's boring, it is actually boring? Only the real Deskbabes-Community is able to rate such type of Card and we Deskbabes-Community are always in the minority..so basicly the Regular Cards Community are able to decide our type of Entertainment. There is no chance the 'deskbabes' type of card can be boring in any way, because the xxx format of this cards already was at maximum level and I really dislike to see Regular Clips Content in Deskbabes Cards, the New XXX Cards. There is no place for such clips content in XXX Cards, sorry. Now I have Sound/Music conflicts with these New XXX Cards, it drives me mad & desperate. 😢

I really hope Totem Entertainment finds a another solution. 😒

Had a thought, please discuss:

Maybe the format could be influenced by the model herself?

Reason being, there are some Models that excell at dirtytalkt and engaging table clips, so why would you want them to do something they already did many times over in the regular istripper cards? For me, the more i see those new xxx cards the more i'm starting to miss the "good ol days", all that dancing is starting to feel somewhat generic.

On the other side, there are models that struggle with the above mentioned and for them there are a lot of cool props (glass pane, swing) and dancing clips. This should alleviate some of the annoying "non-stop-fake-moan-fests" from the past.

And of course less fake moaning would help aswell 😂

**Comment to Darn5**
The model already decide to be model in a regular card or xxx card. There are enough model at store that only have Regular cards.

Hmmm did the shows get boring? I hear what you say how can watching a hot girl playing with a dildo get boring, err it doesn't its all great whoop whoop. What gets boring is, watching the same girl, use the same dildo, in exactly the same way in everyshow, that totem produced of that model. Unfortunately this is exactly whay happened. Not totems fault, the pool of models that wanted to do it at the price that totem wanted to pay just dried up, and we were left with a small pool of models that continiued the XXX content (god bless them) and unfortunately this lead to the argument that the XXX shows were all the same and the brand had become stale.

Whats the solution, well 1. get more girls on board and increase the variety in the models. By recruiting a contant stream of hot girls from ukraine and russia i think that totem have done a good job in sorting this problem out ( in general more hits then misses i think). 2. change the production make up of the shows themselves in inject more variety, and that seems to be the problem part as it has split the community.

My opinion is that, i like the addition of different types of clips into the XXX cards. I could live without the pole clips though, i think they are nice enough clips, but for me i thinks its quite hard to get any sort of explicitness XXX content into these scenes to a level where they are anymore explicit then the pole scenes in a regular card, so they might as well be in a regular card, so i would remove them on that basis. The standing scenes are different though, as the model is not stuck to the pole as part of the performance, and they can move about, go up or down, crawl around on the floor and do explict actions using dildos and any other props etc.

However i do understand that other people will have prefered the old format where it was 90% table scenes, and i dont think that you would ever change their mind on that, so my solution would be that now you have enough girls who do the XXX content due to the new recruitment policies, so that you can now produce multiple XXX cards from the same girl, why cant you shoot the two shows, but with each show having a bias towards each school of thought.

For example say you have Stella Cox turn up at the studio to do her 6 shows, usually 4 regular 2 XXX. the regular shows would be done as normal, totem could then shoot the new style XXX show which has all the dancing and poles/cages/standing and minimal table clips. Then they could do the last show which maybe has just one standing clip at the begining maybe with a striptease and some naughtyness, before moving on to the table for the majority of the clips. Surley it can't be much of a logistical nightmare to produce both styles given a bit of planning which i am sure goes into the process of the card production anyway.

How would you tell which was which from a customers point of view, well Totem could volenteer this info or if not then, presumably if someone brought the card with the format they didnt like then they would coment on the card and then everyone else would know what it was and can make an informed decision as to whether to buy it or not. If they liked the model then this way they would have the option to go buy the other card that was produced using the format that they do like as they would actually have the choice to do so.

surely this would be a best of both words solution.

**Comment to Orclover**
There are many decisions that they make that costs them money but are attempts to keep customers happy:But I'm not happy, my entertainment is gone...no more upcomming cards of new models for me anymore because they stopped producing the Deskbabes type of Card, It suppose to be "Untouched" exact as "Regular iStripper" Cards they can improve categories but they never should change the type of card. I embrace the clear difference between two types of cards, only that will attract more customers to buy more cards, from different types of customers. With only one type of product you only attract one group of costumers.

I dont give a damn 'How often' they produce a XXX Card, but if they do it suppose to be in Full XXX Old Format. how it was. Even if they release just 'one' single XXX Card a month, it should stay a Deskbabes Card. And dont fool me, Totem Entertainment already said the produce cost now is exact the same as with the Deskbabes Cards. Yeah, Original Regular Community are mostly likely not buying "Deskbabes Cards" but they have Regular Types of Cards. And as I said, I dont really care they reduce the production of XXX Cards to 'once a month' aslong it stays the same Type of Card, The Deskbabes Cards.

because people find them boringAnd this is a really personal conclusion. So, because majority of the Original Regular Cards Community says it's boring, it is actually boring? Only the real Deskbabes-Community is able to rate such type of Card and we Deskbabes-Community are always in the minority..so basicly the Regular Cards Community are able to decide our type of Entertainment. There is no chance the 'deskbabes' type of card can be boring in any way, because the xxx format of this cards already was at maximum level and I really dislike to see Regular Clips Content in Deskbabes Cards, the New XXX Cards. There is no place for such clips content in XXX Cards, sorry. Now I have Sound/Music conflicts with these New XXX Cards, it drives me mad & desperate. 😢

I really hope Totem Entertainment finds a another solution. 😒

I know how it feels man, I just had to remember that I got attached to something that totem produced, (american girls), and had to have the attitude that I now have 100 cards of American girls, somthing that totem never had to do, and if they didn't it would not exist. And on top of it, the producing of American girls cost the company money, much like xxx cards, cost the company money. I hope they produce something you can get excited about...Cara Mell, Mikki came along and reminded me that American style dancing may not be as common but totem is still producing a product I can enjoy. And I still have 2000 cards to enjoy.

Personally I think there would be a way to bring back the duo's as well, without totem going bankruppt. I would suggest that XXX content Duos would only be bought by people who are into the XXX context and those that dont want the XXX content would not buy these cards no matter how many girls were in them. So the way around that would be to open up the duo content to have regular content as well as XXX content, so that cards with 2 girls in them have appeal to both audiences instead of being aimed aimed only the minority of the customer base. You also have people like myself that buy both types of content so would aprreiciate and presumably buy both style of duo show.

Personally i liked the VGHD duo cards, there are a couple of really great shows, like blue angle and davon kim, or monica and silvie deluxe both great and both have decent image quality, and i think if totem produced some in 3K these would sell to the masses.

So how could you do this, well at the moment say totem want to shoot 2 models, they fly them in separately and different times and do 6 shows each with them. But it should not cost any more money then what they would ahve spent anyway to fly two girls in at the same time and shoot 12 shows. So you would say 1 show would be and XXX duo, and 1 show a regular duo, that leaves 10 shows, 5 for each girl to then do the solo content, so you could split that so that each model does 3 regular shows 1 full XXX show (old stlye) and 1 XXX show new style which appeals to the regular content audience.

I think that maybe you could not do this all the time, but there are certian occasions where you might be able to and totem could pick and choose these to benifit themselves. Lets say that you are producing your cards as normal and you are looking back at the sales and you had a couple of models blow up, like Gloria and Estonika did last year or like mila azul and Niemira this year, ie the girls where the casting team ask us if we want to see another set within quick sucession of the first sets completion (which is most likely off the back of a good proformance sales wise as much as anything else, i know if duo shows of either of the two pairs of models mentioned above were produced i would have bought them without hesitation). I beleive with a bit of forward planning it would be possible to arrange, for the set up described above, to be put into action and produce at least a couple of duo cards as part of their second runs. Then Totem can then anaylise the sales figures for the second run of cards and then factor that into the decision as to go for a third run and which formats that should use for it.

Arguments agianst this is that you trade out some normal regualar solo content inorder to get the duos into the mix, but i think thats a price worth paying,especially as one of the duos you would get back would also be regualr content so you would still get 4 regular cards per girl, with the duo card effectively shared between them. by the same rational you would actually boost the XXX content produced between the 2 girls to 5 (its 4 at the moment), albeit that some of this content might have a bias towards regular shows, but out of the 5 cards produced ( inc the duo) you would still have 2 old sytle full XXX solo cards 2 new style more regular XXX shows and a full on XXX duo.

Also i think if you factor in the fact that duos were stopped not that long after the change to 3k format, so the majority of duo cards are either standard or medium quality, which might be a factor in putting people off buying them, having more duos in 3K should only increase the popularity of the duo format and hopefully by including regular content as well the new product should bring together the whole community to get behind and buy the cards so that they are profitable.

But once agian thats just my opinion.

A lot of the duo cards had lousy chemistry. If they opt for a duo here and there, it would need to have better research into those models in work they have already done with other models. There is plenty of 'research' out there :P As far as pricing they should be in accord with what it cost to make them, which is much more than a regular card. There were a lot of duo deskbabes models I wish that had more solo vg shows too. I would financially support the card type even if the models were not really to my taste, just to help grow the possibility of more.

OK, would those people who are NOT part of the Quality Assurance team stop quoting or stating what the definitions of each level of eroticism means, because you do not know. You are only guessing.

Wyldannimal who is a part of that team has made a valid and totally correct post.

You may or may not agree with how Totem goes about defining each card, but unless you know the rules (and you do not) not spouting off like you do.

Express your displeasure that the card does not meet your EXPECTATION, but don't claim it doesn't meet the definition.

Be unhappy, express your displeasure, but stop with the misinformation.

RE: You may or may not agree with how Totem goes about defining each car, but unless you know the rules (and you do not) not spouting off like you do.

I agree that playing word games with the English language on this issue is a waste. However, it would be very useful if Totem itself published the meaning they have assigned to these terms. From various discussions on this forum over the past few years I think I have a good understanding of this, but it would be really nice if Totem provided an official explanation.

**Comment to Cartref**

OK, would those people who are NOT part of the Quality Assurance team stop quoting or stating what the definitions of each level of eroticism means, because you do not know. You are only guessing.

Wyldannimal who is a part of that team has made a valid and totally correct post.

You may or may not agree with how Totem goes about defining each car, but unless you know the rules (and you do not) not spouting off like you do.

Express your displeasure that the card does not meet your EXPECTATION, but don't claim it doesn't meet the definition.

Be unhappy, express your displeasure, but stop with the misinformation.

Hi Cartref!, I'm not quessing. I'm never was about to give others information like a Team Member OR Quality Assurance Person as you saying. I just gave my point of view what was the truth in my eyes and experience in all those past years. But that doesn't mean that I was right, I'm not a Totem Genius, but I'm allowed to share my point of view aslong I'm polite, no? 😕

And besides I think it is the Forum Customers responsibilty (personally) aswell to accept 'info' from other customers yes or no. For the real facts and true information peeple should talk to the "Team/Customer Service" by Ticket or something.

Correct me If i'm wrong but I tought the Forums was a safe place to talk aslong no ugly and unfriendly words are sending over the threads. 😳

**Comment to Team**
Milana - Midnight Snack, another XXX Card completly ruined by the New XXX Format 😢 such beautiful model and sexy outfit! but I'm unable to watch and enjoy the show. I really hope she ever comes back in the old xxx format. She already have three New XXX Cards but none of them gave me the feeling of entertainment. I dont want to wait fifteen á twinty minutes for the 'masturbate, fingering and SexToys' clips finally begins by those Cards. I think it is not fair regular card community can enjoy their entertainment right away while the xxx card community have to wait for the very end of the Shows. And NO I dont talk about erotism levels here right now! BUT the complete Deskbabes Card concept.

• Introduction with Sound (Vocal)
• Table Clips with Sound (Vocal)
• Standing Clips with Sound (Vocal)
• SexToys Clips With Sound (Vocal)
• Orgasm Clips with Sound (Vocal)

Lets say I just really miss the complete list of Clips full recorded with Vocal Sound and I used to watch & listen to those types of Clips but now these Regular Clips took place into these Cards and I'm ***** to watch Regular Cards Clips now. 😢

totally agree :
Milana - Midnight Snack is not istripper XXX for me but istripper with a XXX hotness level.

It's sounds like

OK, would those people who are NOT part of the Quality Assurance team stop quoting or stating what the definitions of each level of eroticism means, because you do not know. You are only guessing.

Wyldannimal who is a part of that team has made a valid and totally correct post.

You may or may not agree with how Totem goes about defining each car, but unless you know the rules (and you do not) not spouting off like you do.

Express your displeasure that the card does not meet your EXPECTATION, but don't claim it doesn't meet the definition.

Be unhappy, express your displeasure, but stop with the misinformation.

It's sounds like "be quiet. You know nothing". I have one simple question. Is istripper made for users or is it made for its creators? Who pays for it? This post is a little agressive. Why people can't express their feelings about changes?

People,

It is perfectly fine to have an opinion, or even express what you understand or think is the case. Just don't state it as if it were a fact.

If you state something as a fact (when you don't know it) then all you do is lay the groundwork for arguments as people dispute.

If you think you know just preface that by saying "I think" or "In my opinion" etc. It make it clear that you are not stating a fact only your deductions.

The arguments were already starting here and they were bases upon a flawed understanding of Totem's rating system and how it is applied. So the arguments were counter productive and incorrect.

I prefer to ***** things in the bud, before they become a major issue as we have had in the past.

So have your opinions for or against, just make it plain that its just that your opinion and not a fact.

Cheers & Beers

I think the current move to integrated xxx is a brilliant move. The side effect though is a lack of immersion. The deskbabe cards were boring but when the show climaxed with a dildo you could at least believe that the girl was warmed up enough to enjoy it. This last set of cards has girls dancing, dancing, dancing, and then sticking a rod in their vaginas...maybe some touching in between...it might just be the new crop of girls aren't experienced with toys but I cringe at the amount of acting the girls have to do to act like they enjoy it. There are a lot of variables at play so maybe this isn't big deal but IMHO if you are going to do xxx, they need to appear physically and physiologically comfortable with the toy play. Otherwise just cut it out...make the non-xxx longer, and add more non-nude teasing.

**Comment to Orclover**
I wish they never had done it, the new xxx format. Huge mistake 😟

I attribute the lack of continuity is what has been the most detrimental to the series. You had designated scenes 1-3 with 3 clips and it was excellent continuity so you were watching a whole 10-13 min show over 3 clips. The table clips must have this, or it really sours one of the things that was great about the old shows. I don't understand why the team can't do this like the other shows they did for many years. Of anything with the new card format, this is by far the most dissatisfying change.

Lauryn may's card here is one I consider to have a proper diversity in clip type usage for full xxx of old. I do like seeing pole use in the new format though.

**Comment to DANO70**

Lauryn may's card here is one I consider to have a proper diversity in clip type usage for full xxx of old. I do like seeing pole use in the new format though.

Thank..You!.. For bringing up 'Lauryn May'! I just watched the show and I really did enjoy the performance, such entertainment! That is the real Deskbabes Card Format!

Regular Card Clips
With all the comments I post it is like I dont enjoy Dancing or Pole-Dancing Clips, but I really do. I have Regular Cards aswell and I enjoy them very much. BUT I dont like to see back in Deskbabes Cards. With the Dancing and Pole-Dancing (Regular) Cards I like to add and listen my own music. Deskbabes recorded Sounds in combination with my own chosen Music just conflicts with eachother, thats why I say.. Regular Clips Content doesn't fit in Deskbabes OR New XXX Format Cards. And yeah, Cartref: that is just a Fact..Because the company doesn't record "XXX Sounds" at same time while recording "Dancing" Clips... so, Why in the world are we ***** to entertain such type of show/card.

Fact Explaination:

• I start 'New XXX Card' (playlist of New XXX Cards Starts)
• I choose 'Music' (duration ~1 Hour)(most of my music last for 1 hour or more)
• Model start (Pole)Dancing & Striptease
• Meanwhile so far I enjoy Music in combination with Regular Clips Performances
• The show has last for 15~20 Minutes of Regular Clips already, just fine. Regular Card
• Now a Table Clip - Full Nudity with Sound just starts immediatly and here is the moment I have to "stop/hold" manually my music.
• After been watched one clip with sound recorded table clip, I have to turn on my music again because the Regular Clip Content is about to start again for the next two Clips. So, I want to listen music again.
• And as following the very last 2 á 3 clips rated as XXX for 4 á 5 minutes in duration recorded with sound I have to turn off my music, again.

.... Oké, this whole list of action is just for one single New XXX Card. Do you imagine how this is by whole Playlist of New XXX Cards? .. I will be tired at the end of the day by only switching manually music On and Off. And as I do experience this myself, I can easily say this is a fact aswell. It just conflict and it becomes a real issue for me. It has changed the way of entertainment for me. My entertainment is ruined, gone. 😒

Upcomming changes of New XXX Format
The New upcomming improvements will not solve this problem but will even increase the problem even more. The more Sound Recorded Clips is being added in combination with Regular Recorded Clips, the more I have to switch On and Off with music aswell. Soon these new XXX cards will have back their Introduction Clips with Sound and the Regular Clips Content will start right after... so, will be my start aswell with Music. I have to keep in mind the New Upcomming XXX Format will begin with music turned "Off" for like fifteen á twinty seconds and then I'm allowed to turn on the music for Regular Clips. Aswell will there be more table clips recorded with Sound in the middle of these shows. so, I will have to switch with music more often with the New Upcomming XXX Format Changes. I'm really happy that Totem Entertainment add more sound recorded clips but doesn't change the fact, the New XXX Cards still have Regular Clips Performances, It just doesn't fit in A XXX Card. (Pole)Dancing Clips are special made for iStripper Regular Cards. ... Fact.. These type of performances also made the iStripper Regular Cards unigue/special.

I just have to proof it properly that it is a fact. but because of my lack of english language, I have hard time to bring over the message. 😕



Thanks for reading 😎

**Comment to Terbone**
Alright Terbone! I understand your problem but you can easily 'deselect' the regular clips of a XXX Card by the Tab: Clips! Why dont you just deselect them?

Answer to Terbone:
Well, that would meen that I have to pay for XXX Cards for just half of the Clips I suppose to enjoy and that seems unfair to me. It is my right to enjoy a full complete Deskbabes Card when I have given Credits for it.

Misleading XXX Cards & Information
Cartref says perfectly to us to stop with misleading information but as customers I have the right aswell remind Totem Entertainment they did quite the same by NOT changing the iStripper XXX Card Image. I never came to Forums at first place untill I purchesed A New Format XXX Card, It completely fooled me. That was real misleading in my experience but I dont have to get my Credits back because I'm a Card Collector. Altough Totem Entertainment gave announcements on the Forums about the New XXX Format but that wasn't noticable for me, because I have alot of other hobbies aswell that requires quite some time from me. Do I have to blame myself for not being participate on Forums? No, I think not because "the product" itself, the Card Image was still the same type of image as the Old XXX Format Cards that completely fooled me. And that is wrong, cannot be denied. A New XXX Format requires a New XXX Card Image/Concept aswell, to avoid *****. And that is the company to blame because they haven't done completely everything to stop *****, they have done alot properly but not everything.

I bet there are still customers about to buy the New XXX Cards in mind they think it is actually the Old XXX Format Cards because customers mostly just buying New Released Cards. I think as I actually used to do, If I really like the model, like models from Ukraine & Russia (Karissa, Katya Clover, Mila Azul and Milana). By Girls like these I just Click & Purchese without hesitate and alot of models recently released came from Ukraine & Russia. So, there was no stop for me to buy these Cards. untill now, Totem Entertainment fooled me. 😟

**Comment to Community**
Alright peeple. Correct me if you 'see' any differences between these two cards that leads to the 'New XXX Format'

Goodluck....

I understand that this is not meant to be like a cheap porn flick, but there should be a difference between Istripper and IstripperXXX cards, and that difference lies in the explicit content. I'm a collector of both Istripper and IstripperXXX cards because I like having different options on what I want to watch. Sometimes, it's nice just to have girls dancing while I write, surf the web, or play games. Other times, it's nice to go to that next level and IstripperXXX is that next level. Without that explicit content, it's all just Istripper so why even make the seperate names? The audio and explicit content adds an extra level of hotness to the vids and it's awesome to have that option.

**Comment to jlhawth**

I understand that this is not meant to be like a cheap porn flick

I dont understand they come up with this "cheap" comment after so many years, it is like a backstab in my back as Deskbabes Customer. Besides that, I think by saying this sentence they underate the shows given by their Deskbabes Models in the past. They really did some awesome performance with the Deskbabes Cards 😒. It just angers me everytime reading they call it a "Bad/Cheap" Porn Flick, "i meen come on? for real?? why start with it in the first place?" Why do you need soooo many years to come up with posts like "Oh, uhmm. We dont suppose to produce cheap porn flick" while the most sexiest, hottest and naughty cards already has been released. Instead they just embrace the awesome type of cards they produced in the past, but nooo.. all regrets, and they just follow the VirtuaGirl Community. 😠 .. Seriously, Why? it saddens me alot, the move the company just made this year. It ***** 😢

~Makes me react like: Whhhhaaatttt???? 😢😲~

And I totally agree with you jlhawth!!, I NEED and WANT to see clear differences between two types of cards or just .. give up .. on XXX Cards.... meaningless Time and Energy effort because it is 80~90% Regular Cards.

I really dont know for how long they need in time to realize they have become a HUGE mistake. 😒

😭

Deskbabes becomes iStripper, wonderfull!. Not forseeing the whole type of Card/Software is now completely gone. How did it came to this, really. 😟 Why in the world didn't I see this comming, I completely didn't noticed anything. 😢

Really wish I could Time Travel to back in time 😒

@Terbone

Over the past 2 month you've posted about 180 messages here. About half of them say that you are very very very very upset with the new format of XXX cards and the loss of the old Desk Babes. I get it and I think every one else here including Totem also gets it. These messages seem to be getting redundant. I'm in no position to say you shouldn't repeat yourself because there are some subjects here where I repeat myself if given an opportunity. However, I try not to do it more than once a month.