@Stanton

previous message was too long so it got cut 😄

About loyalty, I know our loyalty is valued in a way because there are humans behind companies who do care. This might have sounded a bit extreme. Let's say the gambling makes it look like our loyalty doesn't matter so much.

Thanks for your kind words, let's enjoy the girls and stay positive.
Take care and have fun! 😊👍

Just in case :) Part 1 (it will be three in Total)

@arise77

I think it was kind of a letdown for long time members, because we were used to a way of getting cards for a certain price,
but with the introduction of cards only obtainable through gambling, it kind of felt like Totem was tricking us suddenly.
So yes, after some time, you take things for granted and you don't expect this from a company you're used to.

Trust me or not :) i know exactly about Disappointment and how hard it can hit the one or the other,
or even for both ourself. And when i'm coming back to these Customers which i mentioned before,
they were not aware of that the Fact, that they lost Money through the Backdoor.
And yes that is Fraud, no Question about that.

And here on iStripper we have the Fact, that every Customer can see that he needs to Gamble to obtain these
SEC Card's, at least at the Moment you have to play a Gambling Game.
So we are talking definitely about Gambling Games.
Regardless what's happening in the past, at east for myself.
Sure, without a speaking about the Odd's but for sure speaking about the Rules for these Games.
And the Rules are always mentioned in the specific Topics, for those kind of TGIF-Events.
But this would be another Topic, and i will not go deeper into that.

And yes it is not the exact same Situation, i'm aware of that, but in my Opinion here is no Fraud.
Everyone can see those specific Topics, they are Public and everyone can say YES or NO to those Games.
And also everyone of us can see, how much Money you have to pay for an specific Amount of the virtual Credits.

Also maybe, what is helping myself in different Situations:

Don't expect anything from anybody, Except from yourself. And you will not get Disappointed any more.

Maybe this could be helpful for someone else.

End of Part 1

Part 2

@arise77
OT

I used to work in customer service so I know exactly waht you mean. I know it's hard to be shouted at even threatened for other people's mistakes.
I'm sorry to hear about what you experienced, but as you said, we also learn a lot from these situations.
Talking about customer service, I think @Manue is doing a great job, and she's probably on her own most of the time.
Everytime I contacted her, she has helped me out and I'm very ...

From my own Expierience for that almost 7 Years in these Company, i'm drawing my Hat in front of @Manue or
in Front of everybody else from the Customer Care.
Because it can be a crappy Job when you have Yelling and Crying Customers.

@ComteDracula be sure i know that you are not Yelling and Crying, just to make sure 😉

And also the following Fact, after some Conversations with my Doc.
This Time/Expierience in this Company, definitely broke something in me, that is for sure.

And my Hope is being so personal, that someone is reading this here to getting aware of the Fact,
that the Human Soul is more breakable as you could Imagine.
Then on the other End is sitting a Human out of Flesh and *****, and believe it or not with a breakable Soul.

And last but not least, we all know that there are people out there which are be able,
to Break the Mind from someone else. These Individuals are known as:

Soziopaths https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soziopathie (unfortunately not available in English)
Narcissists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
Psychopaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

It is unfortunately an overall Problem with our Humanity, the only thing we can do is take care about ourself,
to not get influenced from those People.
OT/

End of Part 2

Part 3 the last.

@arise77

previous message was too long so it got cut 😄

Yap, too much Text for this Forum 😀

About loyalty, I know our loyalty is valued in a way because there are humans behind companies who do care.
This might have sounded a bit extreme.

Nope :) Because beside of those mentioned Customers i was always trying to be Helpful as much as i could.
And Yes, there were definitely Customers, which were nice to me and appreciated my work.
But there were only a few, maybe a few more which i couldn't see any more, because of this Situations before.

Let's say the gambling makes it look like our loyalty doesn't matter so much.

It's possible but, for myself i'm never judging a Situation, when i'm not aware of the Facts.
I would like to give you a Brief example and i know it could be annoying, but if you have the Time
please take it for yourself and read this whole Topic from the beginning until to the End (11 Pages).
Achievements: It ain't gunna happen

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44621/1

Tout sur iStripper / Achievements: It ain't gunna happen.

Let's be honest..... Which achievement is never going to happen for you? Some of these are easy. I added a avatar to get the badge. Easy. Which one are you not going to get....

Important Step! Stay Neutral the whole Time over it.
After reading this Topik, Ask Yourself! the following Question:
Is it now possible, to get the 4:20 Achievement Badge?
And when you found your Answer, For Yourself! compare your Answer with this Topic.
And hopefully you should know, what i was meaning :)

Thanks for your kind words, let's enjoy the girls and stay positive.
Take care and have fun! 😊👍

The same to you 😊

@TheEmu you make it sound like Totem made the first SECs "available" to win in order to satisfy ***** customers. I don't remember anyone asking for these cards to be obtainable only through gambling.

I did not mean to imply that that was the only reason only to give an order of events. However, I seem to remember that making them available as prizes as well as via proper special events had been suggested by someone - i.e. that there would be an initial event such as an advent calendar and that some time latter the card for that event would then be winnable as a prize. People objected before the possibility of getting a second chance was available (because they did not want to be bound by the conditions of the special event) and then they ***** when the second route was offered over and above the special event. The cards only available by gambling came later (and of course there were more complaints).

Don't you think Totem might have simply wanted to make more profit out of the these first SECs, otherwise useless?

Yes, of course I do (except for the "simply") but that does not mean that by doing so they did not provide a solution to the "problem" that initiated the first wave of complaints.

Having another way of obtaining SECs doesn't mean the gambling has to go away. If people still want to go for that one, Totem can keep it.

I absolutely agree - but I do not think that finding something that will satisfy those that do not want to gamble and at the same time will not negatively impact the overall income is as simple a matter as some here seem to think. Introducing a new mechanism will affect the income from the old mechanism (if only by reducing the need to resort to it to get a SEC) so Totem will need to be careful that they keep things properly balanced if they are not to lose out by introducing something new.

@TheEmu

... and then they ***** when the second route was offered over and above the special event. The cards only available by gambling came later (and of course there were more complaints).

What was the second route of getting the 1st SECs if it wasn't gambling?

Yes, of course I do (except for the "simply") but that does not mean that by doing so they did not provide a solution to the "problem" that initiated the first wave of complaints.

I think you put the quotation marks " " on the wrong word, haha... Joke aside, the "solution" provided is not much of a solution if it doesn't allow people to actually get the card. Gambling doesn't guarantee you get the card you're playing for.
We can only speculate on the intentions, but the odds show that this game is designed to make most members pour in a lot of credits, not for most members to win an SEC.

I absolutely agree - but I do not think that finding something that will satisfy those that do not want to gamble and at the same time will not negatively impact the overall income is as simple a matter as some here seem to think. Introducing a new mechanism will affect the income from the old mechanism (if only by reducing the need to resort to it to get a SEC) so Totem will need to be careful that they keep things properly balanced if they are not to lose out by introducing something new.

You can put it in a simple way: if there is another way, there will probably be less people taking part in the scratch game. If people choose not to gamble, that might just be because it's not worth the time, credits and all unwanted cards.

As far as I remember initially one was never able to gain a SEC if you missed the related promotion. Ever. That's been improved by being able to gain it in later promotions, may that be gambling promotions. I guess they also experimented with higher priced cards like Estonika / Harley XX. But I haven't seen many of those, so I guess that failed. Anyway, the SEC's by itself are not very special... it's just the idea of not being able to get them :-)

What was the second route of getting the 1st SECs if it wasn't gambling?

You could get a Joker card without any gambling involved, if you purchased a Premium membership "status" when it was first made available a year ago or so. I don't know if there have been any other ways to get them, outside gambling promotions, so far.

@Dfner I think Joker cards were introduced after the scratch game where you could get past SECs. Jokers were then given for some time when premium membership was introduced.

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/42837/1?post=632068

Tout sur iStripper / NEW: Joker cards

We have released a new reward for those who participate to our promotions! Named "Joker cards". What's the concept? A joker card is a voucher that you can exchange for any card of the store including...

@arise77 You're right (I had forgotten the origin of the Jokers 😊).

But my point actually was that there was one way to get SEC without any gambling element involved. And that was purchasing that Premium membership when it was introduced (like I did). That way you got your Joker card, and therefore, effectively, an SEC of your choice without any gambling.

What was the second route of getting the 1st SECs if it wasn't gambling?

The second route was gambling. It was a way of gettiing the SECs. Without this second route there was absolutely NO way of getting a SEC if you had missed (or deliberately ignored) the original event. It was a solution that did provide the requested second way of getting the cards - that some people did not like that way of getting them does not mean that it was not a solution - albeit not a universaly acceptable one but no one ever claimed that it was.

You can put it in a simple way: if there is another way, there will probably be less people taking part in the scratch game. If people choose not to gamble, that might just be because it's not worth the time, credits and all unwanted cards.

Exactly correct, and that is pretty well the point I have been trying to make all along. Changing things is likely to cost Totem money unless they are careful, Changing things in the simple ways that have been suggested would almost certainly cost them money - would you willingly reduce your profits ?

We can only speculate on the intentions, but the odds show that this game is designed to make most members pour in a lot of credits, not for most members to win an SEC.

Yes we can speculate on the intentions, but whatever the intensions were the gambling games did provide a second way to get the SECs, no matter how unpopular that way turned out to be it was still a way to get the cards.

The moral of this story.

The Sec, who were there as a bonus at the beginning to retain people, and encourage them to buy all the cards for a month, and many people, like me have agreed to participate, have had a nasty trick to play. by people who didn't want to follow the first rules of the game.

So after several expressions of discontent, Totem created a way through games to obtain them, while these cards were never to be available again to those who did not agree to participate in these offers.

A stroke of genius for Totem. They realize that by doing so, it earns them +++ money, and there is no guarantee that people will get these SEC cards, even while playing.

They pursue dissatisfaction, giving the illusion that they are going to have these cards. They even go so far as to create the joker card, to further make believe in the ease of obtaining these cards in SEC trading.

Yes people end up getting them, but at what cost in the end (many did not count their loss), and in addition they end up with cards that they did not want, just like when they had to be people buy all the cards a month.

In doing so, they turn against the first loyal buyers who agree to play the first rules of the game, because the solution of games of chance is not suitable for all.

Regardless of the frustrations generated, Totem sees that there is a lot of money to be made. So why stopped.

"Cherry on the sunday", they do nothing to reduce frustrations. Do not come to the forums with the members to see how they could lessen this frustration. On the contrary, the only intervention to try to reduce the discontent was to say that other ways could be found to satisfy loyal customers.

It is from this moment that the jokers cards appeared, and that the SECs winning only by the games increased in frequency.

For me this story is nonsense. That's why I lost confidence in Totem.

As we say here, "they undressed Jacques to dress Jean", with old clothes, which they passed off as new.

And now that Jacques is quite naked, he must tell himself that it is not bad at least the girls are beautiful.

And Jean realizes afterwards that he made him laugh. As he is ashamed, he continues to play and make himself believe that all is well "Madame la Marquise".

Above all, he does not want Jean to take back his clothes and become completely naked again.

So he tries to agree with Totem, who provided him with these.

This is why I said that Totem created a Pandora's box with the SEC.

La morale de cette histoire.

Les Sec, qui étaient là comme un plus au début pour fidéliser les gens, et les encourager à acheter toutes les cartes d'un mois, et dont plusieurs personnes, comme moi ont accepté d'y participer, se sont faient jouer un vilain tour par les gens qui ne voulaient pas suivre les premières règles du jeu.

Ainsi après plusieurs manifestations de mécontentement, Totem a créer une façon par les jeux de les obtenir, alors que ces cartes ne devaient jamais plus être disponibles pour ceux qui n'avaient pas accepter de participer à ces offres.

Coup de génie pour Totem. Ceux-ci réalisent qu'en agissant ainsi, cela leur rapporte +++ d'argent .De plus rien ne garanti que les personnes vont obtenir ces cartes SEC, même en jouant.

Ils poursuivent l'insatisfaction, en donnant l'illusion qu'il vont avoir ces cartes. Ils vont même jusqu'à créer la joker card, pour encore plus faire croire à la facilité d'obtenir ces cartes en échanges des SEC.

Oui les gens finissent par les obtenir mais à quel prix finalement (plusieurs n'ont pas fait le décompte e leur perte), et en plus ils se retrouvent avec des cartes qu'ils ne voulaient pas, tout comme lorsqu'il fallait que les gens achètent toutes les cartes d'un mois.

Ce faisant il se metttent à dos les premiers acheteurs fidèlent qui accepter de jouer les premières règles du jeu, car la solution des jeux de hasard ne conviennent pas à tous.

Peu importe les frustrations engendrées, Totem voit qu'il y a beaucoup d'argent à faire. Alors pourquoi cessé.

"Cerise sur le sunday", il ne font rien pour diminuer les frustrations. Ne viennent pas sur les forums avec les membres pour voir comment ils pourraient diminuer cette frustration. Au contraire la seule intervention pour essayer d'atténuer la grogne a été de dire que d'autres façons seraint trouver pour satisfaire les fidèles clients.

C'est à partir de ce moment que les jokers cards sont apparus, et que les SEC se gagnants seulement pas les jeux ont augmenté en fréquences.

Pour ma part cette histoire c'est n'importe quoi. C'est pourquoi j'ai perdu confiance en Totem.

Comme on dit ici, "ils ont déshabillé Jacques pour habiller Jean", avec de vieux vêtements, qu'ils ont fait passé pour du neuf.

Et maintenat que Jacques est tout nu, il doit se dire que ce n'est pas grâve au moins les filles sont belles.

Et Jean réalise après coup qu'il a fait rire de lui. Comme il a honte, il continue à jouer et se faire croire que tout va bien "madame la Marquise".

Il ne veut surtout pas que Jacques lui reprenne les vêtements et redevienne à nouveau tout nu.

Donc il essai de donner raison à Totem, qui lui a fourni ceux-ci.

C'est pourquoi je dit que Totem a créé une boite de Pandore avec les SEC.

(Désolé je voulais écrire : "Il ne veut surtout pas que Jacques lui reprenne les vêtements et redevienne à nouveau tout nu." plutôt que Jean, mais impossible de le corriger dans mon message en anglais. J'ai dû couper mon message en deux.)

(Sorry I wanted to write: "He does not especially want Jacques to take his clothes back and become naked again." Rather than Jean, but impossible to correct in my message in english. I had to cut my message in two.)

this post is a little to long for me to read it but the 1st paragraph had a few statements that needed comment.

But it will be of no use if we keep talking about the same problem, SEC cards.
Because Totem will hardly take us into consideration, in addition, Totem has recognized how one can earn additional money or compensate for losses.

Not sure what consideration you are looking for but yes totem realizes the gambling makes them money

Just like you, I have a large collection and I always bought every card, then the SEC cards were introduced. Of course, all cards from iStripper are a "must" for collectors.

We have different definitions of 'collector' - I collect the cards I want. Some I can take or leave; and the ones I don't want - I don't want in my collection at any price not even if they were free.

The problem, we thought the cards were really something special, because it was said, "The cards are only available now at this point in time" and then no more.

Never being available doesn't make them special? I have zero exclusive (aka SEC) cards but plenty of cards that cannot be purchased any longer but there is nothing special about them?

After a lot of criticism, Totem changed the strategy a bit.

Totem did not make any change because of any kind of criticism. Totem second exclusive card was a gambling game. Once they saw how much money they made they realized their mistake in saying the first exclusive card would "never be available again" so they made more gambling games and offered the previously never available card again as a prize.

Now we are ***** with the SEC cards, because the distances where they appear are getting shorter and shorter.
In addition, the joker cards, of course everyone would like to have them, because if you miss an SEC card, you still have the joker and can use it.

We are ***** with exclusive cards because they are highly profitable; many members are willing to waste both their time and credits to get a card simply because they cant get it any other way. As long as it's profitable it will remain.

And while I guess everyone would like a joker; I personally wouldn't do anything stupid to get one. Never had one and doubt I ever will

@Grabandt

Everyone has a different opinion about it, it would be bad if everyone had the same opinion.

In this case i will not hold back my Opinion to the whole SEC,
Gambling or whatever Situation, here on iStripper.
Please keep in Mind, it's only my own/one Opinion, it shall not insulting or piss off anyone.
When you feel insulted or pissed off, then it's not my Fold, that was definitively not my Goal.

This will be my last attempt to be a voice of reason, if it not helps,
you can still smash your Heads after that. I'm laying back in the meanwhile and shaking my Head about it.

But only for a short Moment, because there are waiting roundabout 1900 Girls for my Attention.

We all know that a critical Mass of upset and dissatisfied people will for sure destroy things.
Driven by your Emotions, will Result in an uncontrolled Situation, that is the Truth.
Because an upset and dissatisfied Situation is a result from the wrong Expactations.
And from Expectation follows the Disappointment, alwasy my Friends always, that is also the Truth
That is the Reason why i don't have any Expectations in anyone else, except for myself.

I also know that there are more many Users which are satisfied with iStripper, and i'm one of them.
But they are holding back, which is sad but everyone to it's own.
But it would be sad when the Mass of satisfied Users is bigger as the Mass of the
dissatisfied Users. And that the dissatisfied Users Mass, are be able to Shut Down iStripper.
That would be sad, only because a few Users are not getting all and everything at anytime.

Also i will not Say, that Totem is making everything right, and i think there is always
room for improvement. But again we have no Idea what's going on behind the Curtain.

And i really could imagine that Totem isn't generating enough Money only from the Card Prices (regular Shows),
to bring us every Day a new Show, yes it could be the case. No i'm sure that is the case.
Otherwise they didn't decide to do so with the SEC Card's the Gambling and the Outfit Auction.

Then at the end everyone will get paid for his Work. It is a given and taken.
Totem takes our Money, but they are giving us wonderful Girls for that.
That is the Reason why we are here. That is the Reason why I am here.

And we know for sure, the the Team is reading this Topic. And if we are patient
they will react. But at the end this Reaction will not satisfy everyone, but it is what it is.
You can't satisfy everyone it is what it is, accept this Situation, otherwise you will never come to rest.

And now comes the harsh part, and yes driven by my Emotions for sure,
again please keep my introductory statement in Mind.

Maybe it's a good Idea that Totem is Banning all those upset and dissatisfied User for a while from the Forum.
But still with Access to the rest of the iStripper Universe.
To give them Time to come to Rest for themself, and to give Totem the Time to reorganize their Stuff and Things.
To not mess around any more, with such stupid and annoying Situations.

And if these Users are still not be able to Understand the two medals principle,
then these Mass of Users should look for another thing, which one attracts your attention.
Then obviously iStripper doesn't it for you any more.

Thanks for Reading ✌

@Stanston

Can I suggest you to Google Freedom of Speech ?

We are having a civilized and respectful discussion about a controversial policy from a company we otherwise hold in high esteem. Under the circumstances, there is no need to ban anyone. Besides, forcibly silencing people's anger is rarely a good solution. Rather, their anger risks to turn into rage and expressing itself differently. Notably through the loss of customers.

We can have different points of view, but when a company implements a policy that angers so many loyal customers, this is generally not a good thing. Silencing the opponents won't solve anything.

Once again, the gambling and the games are certainly a good thing for both new customers and Totem. I have no problem with that.

However, those with a full or almost full collection (let's say triple-diamond customer) have nothing to gain from it. So it would be wise to allow them to acquire all the cards without having to submit to games that only increase their frustration and anger.

However, those with a full or almost full collection (let's say triple-diamond customer) have nothing to gain from it.

I have a full collection but I seem to gave gained from it to the tune of several SECs at little or no cost - in several cases I made a profit as well as getting the card. I may even be a little up overall for going for the SECs via the games. I prefer the non-gambling methods and only resort to the games when I need to, but I have certainly not lost out by doing so.

I agree with @RAGORN : as the conversation stay in respect and fair-play between all the members, no ban is necessary. We are adults and we can have a serious discussion between us (and Totem which is reading what we write, believe me).

. En outre, faire taire de ***** la colère des gens est rarement une bonne solution.

Comme le dit @RAGORN est tout à fait correct.

Sans doute, vous vous êtes laissé emporter par vos émotions, comme vous le dite vous-même @Stanston.

Nous avons la chance, vous comme moi, d'habiter dans un pays de liberté et ne voulons pas faire marche arrière ou résider dans un état totalitaire. N'est-ce pas?

[quote]. Besides, forcibly silencing people's anger is rarely a good solution. [/ Quote]
As @RAGORN says is absolutely correct.

No doubt you got carried away by your emotions, as you yourself say @Stanston.

We are fortunate, you and me, to live in a land of freedom and do not want to back down or reside in a totalitarian state. Is not it?

@TheEmu

I have a full collection but I seem to gave gained from it to the tune of several SECs at little or no cost - in several cases I made a profit as well as getting the card. I may even be a little up overall for going for the SECs via the games. I prefer the non-gambling methods and only resort to the games when I need to, but I have certainly not lost out by doing so.

Well, good for you. I'm quite sure that Totem will allow its customers to continue to participate in gambling even if they implement an alternative solution. However and as many users have shown, it's certainly possible to spend hundreds of credits without obtaining the SEC. And even if you're lucky enough to win an SEC, it's not necessarily the one you wanted to obtain. I'm among the customers who are not willing to waste their money in gambling. Even if I could win.

@PAGORN

Can I suggest you to Google Freedom of Speech ?

No, that's not necessary :)

We are having a civilized and respectful discussion about a controversial policy from a company we otherwise hold in high esteem. Under the circumstances, there is no need to ban anyone. Besides,
forcibly silencing people's anger is rarely a good solution.
Rather, their anger risks to turn into rage and expressing itself differently. Notably through the loss of customers.

Like i was saying, when Emotions come to play things will become uncontrollable, so yes it was totally my fold.
But it was not my Goal to offend or piss off the other Members like i mentioned.
So if someone is feeling offended or anything else i Apologize for that.

And further to stay on my Opinion which should be Ok,

However, those with a full or almost full collection (let's say triple-diamond customer) have nothing to gain from it.
So it would be wise to allow them to acquire all the cards without having to submit to games that only increase their frustration and anger.

I'm thankful for my Discounts which i'm getting through my Status, it is totally Ok for me.
I'm more than Thankful, that i was be able myself to get the iStripper Software
running inside of Linux, to use the Product.
I'm totally not frustrated with the iStripper Product, and for that Reason was my previous Post
not that necessary.

I Love the iStripper Product just like it is, and at least from my own Perception,
and when i'm watching the Shows i have the Feeling that Totem is on a good course.
But with that said, i'm stepping back from this Discussion, and Apologize again for my action.
So please feel free to Discuss whatever you want, i'm further enjoying my Shows.

@Philours

Nous avons la chance, vous comme moi, d'habiter dans un pays de liberté et ne voulons pas faire marche arrière ou résider dans un état totalitaire. N'est-ce pas?

Oui, nous commettons trop souvent l'erreur d'oublier à quel points les libertés dont nous bénéficions en démocratie sont fragiles et doivent être protégées et chéries. Il existe aujourd'hui un courant de pensée qui vise à faire taire toute personne exprimant une opinion contraire à la nôtre et cette tendance est extrêmement dangereuse.

i'm further enjoying my Shows.

Have fun then 😉

I have a full collection but I seem to gave gained from it to the tune of several SECs at little or no cost

Exactly. The SECs are a loyalty bonus for people with full collections. The rest of us can spend large sums on the games, to maybe get the SEC or a joker. Full collections might not constitute the mass of users, but each one represents a more substantial investment from the collector and it makes commercial sense to offer a reward.

@RAGORN - that is fine, the gambling aspect certainly is not for everyone but your claim that customers like me have nothing to gain from rhe games is not correct. We risk not getting a SEC, or if we are not careful of losing a lot of credits but we can, and I regularly do, gain from the games - its just that we can not be certain to do so.

I do, however, admit that anyone who wants to be selective about which cards they buy is not likely to gain if he or she regards unwanted cards as being worthless - but those with full collections are not selective buyers unless they have greatly changed their habits just before playing one of these games.

@TheEmu

I do, however, admit that anyone who wants to be selective about which cards they buy is not likely to gain if he or she regards unwanted cards as being worthless - but those with full collections are not selective buyers unless they have greatly changed their habits just before playing one of these games.

You are absolutely right here, as much as regards to the more selective clients (which I am one) as to the collectors.

Of course, if you want all cards and you still miss some, many games are going to appeal to you.

@RAGORN, oui, ce courant existe et à déjà marqué des points dans l'un ou l'autre domaine.
Espérons que nous pourrons le combattre et le vaincre, sinon l'avenir sera triste.😪😢

I agree with @RAGORN : as the conversation stay in respect and fair-play between all the members, no ban is necessary. We are adults and we can have a serious discussion between us (and Totem which is reading what we write, believe me).

@stefnev1 - my biggest problem with this is that I am getting bored with the circular and repetitive nature of the conversation. Especially as it is not the first time the subject has been aired in the Forum.

😟

@pickle1

Especially as it is not the first time the subject has been aired in the Forum.

I know, but this thing is not against the rules edicted by Totem for the forum, it's not considered as "spam".