I created this Post So we have a thread to Discuss the Topic of the Ladder Competition and similar thread.

Presently the Ladder Has Veered Off Course and Too Much Discussion in the Voting Thread.

So Please bring your Discussion to this Thread.

I will open a thread for the Team and Mods to discuss what we all think is fair.

But we would Like to Hear from the members Who enjoy this Competition.
And the Ones Who Don't.( Edit)

AS a MOD, every so often we get complaints about some threads.
Some are Legitimate, and some we have to Defuse so they don't Explode.

Please try to Keep your Discussion civil..
Rant if you Must...
But No Personal Attacks or *****..

The Current Issue is that the Ladder Thread is posting the Rules and Ladder too Frequently.
Also that too many voters flood the topic with picture each time they vote.


My Personal View:

I would Like to See the Rules and Current Ladder Status in a Separate Thread.
Use That Thread to Keep Just the Rules updated, and where the Current Ladder Is.
Even if it's Needs a bit of Intervention from one of the MOD's to edit the Rules or Status Posts.
As long as it's only a weekly or Every other week task.

Thoughts on the Voting:

I don't want to Hinder the FUN..
It Should Be FUN.. Let's try to keep the FUN in It..

But I also don't want to See Every Vote also Include a Picture..

At the Start of a New Competition, Post Pictures of the Models..
Include some Model Info too...
Like She's Currently 30th on the ladder..
Her longest winning Streak was 5 in a row..

( don't need to post the Whole ladder )

If Mid way through Voting, You see your Model is falling Behind..
Ok, maybe Post Her Picture again with your vote to Try and Sway the Votes..

but it Shouldn't turn into a Picture Battle..
I see no Issue with pictures used in moderation.
But A Flood of Pictures. NO!

Commenting about your Vote or the Models:

Yes, please do comment about your own Vote..
Why you picked her..
A comment Does not need to also have a Picture..
your words should be enough..


Frequency of Competitions:
I think the Current Rules of One Competition a Day is working Good.
So I see no need to make any changes there..

Okay, those are my thoughts...

WyldAnimal - Mod and Member..

Thank you @Wyldanimal for opening this thread & making this a "Sticky"

Ok, here's one person's opinion.

I don't follow the ladder thread. It doesn't interest me. However, it is relevant to VG and a considerable number of members seem to enjoy it. Therefore, it should continue.

I wish there were some way I could more effectively ignore it, but that would take a change to the forum software which I don't see happening.

I wish the folks who participate in the ladder could keep the number of messages down. Sometimes there are so many that the to 50 messages have overflowed from one visit to my next. I don't like it when that happens, but it isn't ***** me either. I don't see how you can regulate this. I think it would be too much effort for the moderators to try to police a lot of rules. I suggest that the ladder participants try to exercise a bit more self control. Perhaps the ladder participants might send private messages to people who get carried away. Internal self control is better then outside policing.

Image don't bother me because I don't see them. There might be a bandwidth issue with regard to the servers, but that should be up to Totem to address.

One persons opinion.

BOTTOM LINE:

I'd be happy if the ladder went away, but I don't think that would be fair to other members of this forum who enjoy it. I'd like to see fewer messages, but I don't see rules and regulations as a workable solution. I think the ladder participations can reduce their footprint here and I'd prefer them to work out how rather than the moderators to impose a solution.

first of all i want to apologise that my suggestion for a member/voter gets that stone rolling.

but i keep by my thoughts. every member/voter who wants an actual ladder the girls who knocked off or the actual rules can save them as a simple .txt-file and keep them updated by her-/himself. that's no big thing. i do this by myself.

when the rules are changing - and that's not so often - the changes can be posted in the thread.

i agree that it's enough when pics of the girls are only posted at the beginning of a challenge.

i hope we all calm down and have again FUN with the ladder competition!!!!!!!!!


@Dorsai6,
i see much more than one thread in the hot topics that i'm not interested in.

Honestly Spave, that ball was already in motion.

It just worked out that you had posted pretty much exactly what I was about to post and it made more sense to me to just use your words. I realize it kinda put you on the spot but, it was going to happen anyway.


Everybody, please share your thoughts and suggestions so we can get a better feel for the situation at hand.

Thank you

My thoughts basically now we have yet another thread to discuss the Ladder, bang goes the 50 last posts even more and some members enjoyment of this forum.

The ladder thread has been an annoyance to those not interested ever since it was opened, I find it amusing that we are still going over this issues 156 pages on, instead of some meaningful action being taken long before now, it's not like is the first time this issue has been raised and surely wont be the last, until members are given a better way of filtering out new posts since their last visit this issue will continue.

And really this gets a STICKY??????

Well, Dorsai said almost everything .. I personally don't like the Ladder either and would be pleased to see it go. Why!? Because can't see any usefulness to the forum of this thing running. To have fun .. ?? Fun's OK, I can understand that, but the point is, dear gamblers, your fun is taking over my fun. I do not visit Ladders, but 50 Last Posts, which used to be my fun to read and find the different forum's stuff more easily has become a part of the Ladder Competition. Majority of posts there are now from that thread, and I had to quit to visit this topic, because it's really annoying to scroll through all those votings out there every time to find something really interesting .. creative might say.

As by its design Ladder is going to never end I'd suggest to put wires to this thing to produce free electricity for Community, plus hide it from the sight }:-)

It's like a wheel .. You might find this thing stupid, but scientists have found out that hamsters and mice are running it for fun.

Ok guys I say we gather all the suggestions made from this thread and make another thread with a poll to figure out once and for all what to do. We can call it the "VGHD Virtuagirl Ladder Competition Idea/Suggestion Poll Thread!". And make it a sticky too, of course.

edit: forgot to add the exclamation mark after Thread.

I will add my few cents about this.

As a mod, I will discuss this with me fellow mods extensively. One thing is that this discussion hopefully would not be just to keep this issue the same it has been with a little twist just to keep it going for the next ten years.

Since some members are having fun with this, and most of them are just playing with no further agenda, I would like to find a solution for their game to keep on without the annoyance to the rest of the community.

These forums are visited by many, many more members that never post that come just to look for information. They don't engage on debates, they don't play games. They just come to see what's up with Virtuagirl. The universe of VG customers is not composed only of those that manifest their likes or dislikes about the ladder.

Totem use this website primarily to help users with their issues, provide information about their products and as a place to "DISCUSS and share their OPINIONS about Virtuagirl". The ladder is a game that has been taken the spotlight for more than a year now, dumping out the valuable info out of sight. A game can't be more important than a post a team member did to inform the users about the product. Can't dump out debates or info about fixes. This nonsense needs to end now.

Even with the extended view I have as a mod of the 50 last posts I often find the ladder as the sole thread taking up to the 40% of the whole posting with nothing but votes and updates and I did miss information I found much later. This is *****.

Moderators are obligated to keep the forums redable and useful for all users. And they must think about users, probably the huge part of them, that never post but are regulars to the forums too. And if you want evidence of that, just look how many posters you have in any casting thread compared to the number of votes.

The ladder as a game, yes.

The ladder as a perpetual spamming machine. No way.

If you're a regular of the ladder, and a member that also use the forum for other stuff, you should see this is a problem and you might be more than willing to contribute to a nice solution. We are all members here, we all must be respectful of the other members and contribute to a healty forum and not one that any newcomer would see and think: what the hell is this?

As a member I never cared about playing the ladder, so I never posted there, against or else. As a mod, I can't ignore this problem and I won't. ;)

This has been commented on before, but I must ask explicitly: Are there any configurations changes that be applied to the forum set-up that could mitigate the problem we have with the ladder?

@Dorsai6,

Sure......The first configuration change I can think of is to close the thread. That would definitely stop the issue with it overwhelming the forum and preventing important information from getting to the members, moderators and The Team.

It would also trigger a flood of complaints for a while too.



Another thing to add to the thoughts.......

Games I've played have always had an ending. Some point where it's completely played through. This particular one currently has no end in sight. It's been intentionally set up that way. To dominate the forum and never end. Which is why I refer to it as The Never Ending Ladder. Funny, every ladder I've ever climbed has also had a first step and a last step.

That's a very good point 91hebasu, and considering that there are new girls added weekly, making the ladder literally endless. I'm starting to feel like Mario over here^

Re: The first configuration change I can think of is to close the thread.

That's not a configuration change. That's simply a moderator action. I'm wondering how the function of the forum could be changed without programing effort. Most systems like this forum have a lot of set-up characteristics that can be changed with only a little effort. I wonder if that kind of change could help resolve the problem WITHOUT ***** the ladder. Is there a solution outside the box of our current set-up?

Re: Games I've played have always had an ending.

Once upon a time I studied Game Theory. You've described a finite game. Sorry to correct you, but the ladder is a finite game. It's just a very long one. It can be mathematically proven that the ladder must end, but it may take quite a while.

corrected 2 typos

I created this Thread and made it A sticky So as it wouldn't get Lost..
I'm hoping that with enough member Feed back, we'll have a good amount of info to Discuss.. Between the MOD's and the Team..

A very Good Point has been presented by Several members Who have expressed that they would rather Not see the Ladder, or similar High Activity Threads, Dominate the Last 50 or the Hot Topics.

Maybe that can be Motivation for the Team to give the Members some form of Forum Filter.
Maybe a White List and a Black List.

The White List would be your Favorite Topics.
One Click takes you there..

The Black list would be Blocked from your Viewing them as part of the Last 50 or Hottest topics, but you Could still browse to them by Opening the Forum they are contained in.

any way, this will only remain open long enough to get feed back.
Then it will be closed and the Sticky removed.

Re: The Black list would be Blocked from your Viewing them as part of the Last 50 or Hottest topics, but you Could still browse to them by Opening the Forum they are contained in.

The black list would certainly work for me. I don't need a white list because I can always go to the correct section and open the thread. Another alternative that might required less programming would be a new forum section whose thread would never appear in the top 50 list. People who want to follow those threads could go to that section and open them. The only drawback of this excluded section would be in letting new members know what was present, but that might be solved by allowing the hot topic list to continue to include those threads.

Have we ever considered closing a competition thread when it is won and then starting a new thread? That might save the Hot Topic List?

I have drawn critism in the past for not acting against this thread and my rational was then as now, a number of members enjoy it.

But, as 91hebasu has posted, it also annoys a number of members because of how it swamps the board.

Currently there is no filter for blocking out threads that you are not interested in. This was something that Cybervixen repeatedly asked for, with out much success (not for the lack of trying).

Restraint in all things, usually makes the world go smoothly.

Then the first 10 pages of the Everything about Virtuagirls will be filled with nothing but ladder threads.

Website changes for a thread that is causing problems? I don't think we need any website changes, we need to decrease dramatically the impact this thread is causing or close it.

As some said here, myself included, since some users are having fun with it I won't go at first with the most obvious choice of just closing it. But I don't support the notion of this going on as it is now just with a little twist that would hardly make any difference. Only logical choice then, IMO, is a new set of rules that speed the elimination process and gives the ladder game a definitive, foreseeable end in the near future.

really a good idea to open an extra Thread from Wyldanimal. Thank you for that.

Now we see that his opening points:

The Current Issue is that the Ladder Thread is posting the Rules and Ladder too Frequently.
Also that too many voters flood the topic with picture each time they vote.

never was the real problem!

The real problem seems to be the "Last 50 posts" function only.

Well I didn't saw this problem before because as a long time member I've never used this
(to me) senceless function.
If I want to see the latest (hottest) posts I see it on the forum start page in a timeline ordered by threats.
I never spent my time with reading 49 mixed posts I'm not interessed in just to find the one I was maybe looking for. The start page already sorts this for me. And for all other things there is a nice little search function in here.

So, the problem is that different users have a different usage of the forum. And every thread with a few daily posts will float the "50 posts" function everytime.

In other words Mods will have to close every thread who will be used with a daily high frequence for "some reason".
Doesn't matter if it's a game or whatever. Doesn't matter if many people have fun there or not there will always be others who don't want to see it.

The only way to avoid this without skipping the function or skipping the fun of customers would be to put high frequently used Threads out of the "last 50 posts" counting somehow. and everyone would be satisfied.

would be my suggestion

thank you

as Virt4B said, i never used the last 50 post thread. for me it's useless.

so, when you mind to close the ladder thread, than you fairly have to close much much much more threads....

I recall a while back where an old thread was dusted off, posted in and it started getting a lot of posts. A group of us were having a bit of fun poking at each other. Something about three words. The people posting in it were having a good time........Fun.

It started to get really active for a bit. Then it took the top spot in the Hot Topics away from The Never Ending Ladder. At that point, a bunch of complaints starting coming in about how senseless it was......How it was making no real contribution to the forum and people were saying it needed to be closed because it was dominating the forum.

If I remember correctly, those complaints were coming from Ladder regulars. It was a campaign to stop the competition.

So, the solution is that since I don't care about the structure of the website and I want to keep on with that against anything and everything, all the users should lose the website features. And users that do use the forums for other stuff should just endure the onslaught.

No other thread has 7940 posts and 159 pages in 448 days. And no other thread ever caused these problems and none ever should again.

The forum is like it is, unusual use of the forums does not mean to ***** Totem to make unusual changes to acommodate problematic threads.

The idea of filtering threads is that old and has been ignored for so long that I doubt there's any interest in that. But guess we can wait two more years to see if it finally materializes into something. Of course, if it does, so good, but likely not till this blows up one way or the other. Just cause "social behaviour" is now just a tea house in China.

So far I'm not seeing any argument but "cause I want to and I don't care" and not even a slight recognition of the problematic nor the minimal empathy for the needs of others.

Some thoughts........

For me, I've rarely used the "last 50 posts" thread in the forum. Didn't have much use for it, but others do so I do see that problem. Yesterday after starting the challenge, I went through the current casting models that I haven't commented on yet. (I'm very, very happy casting for both sites is going again) After that, I did check the "50 last posts" to check how it looked, get a sense of what others were seeing.

As for a separate thread for the rules & current ladder, that would be a good idea but I have concerns about it.

As the current way the forum is set up, this option is only good if it could be setup to be only updated & then closed so no one could post on it. This only is a Moderator's function. The Moderator's should not have to do this as I think they have much more other important things to do in the forums. It should be only by the thread starter or other persons authorized to do so, like SpaveInvader or myself. If this option is ultimately the one selected, I would like to see the Moderator's discuss & select 1 Moderator who would communicate with the authorized persons to accomplish this. So we could streamline the process & have a constant voice between Moderators & members.

As for the forum usage, I think a filter on the hottest topics could be an option. To me it would work like E-mail, where you could select the topics you don't want to see. Then you would delete them & the hottest topics would refresh. You could go from there. I do realise this would not solve the "last 50 posts" but this would be another option. As the Team, Moderators & beta testers are working on the newest version of the software, maybe this could be the next project.

As for bumping the thread, to me threads that are in use everyday in my opinion are not being "Bumped", the ones that have not been used in a certain time & then "brought back to life" are being bumped. Maybe in the future, the Team & Moderators can discuss limits to put on threads. Like in the casting forum, when a model is in the studio to be filmed, her casting thread should be closed at that time & maybe deleted. For others that have "run it's course" like polls and such, after they are done, close the thread & possibly delete them. In my opinion, any thread that is dormant after 6 months should be closed & possibly deleted. Any function that lightens the moderators workload would be a good thing.

As for "picture dumping" in my opinion there has been dumping by by members who do not participate in the thread, trying to get a certain girl in the competition. As for the voting members, I don't think it's necessary to post pictures with your votes but I do not have a problem with it. It could turn into a "picture war" which is not needed. This probably needs to be a "all or nothing" approach. Either allow pictures posted by voting members with moderating by authorized persons with possible votes taken away for "dumping" or no pictures allowed period.

As for comments & "banter" yes I'm all for that in voting as long as it does not develop into personal attacks. To get a person view on why they vote the way they do is interesting.

I would like to hear from Rex & the Team on what they think about the competition & these ideas in general. Maybe they have ideas of their own.

Thank You for taking the time to read this,

JayZ971

On just a few of those points......

"Select 1 Moderator who would communicate with the authorized persons" ??

Not going to happen.


We don't delete threads. Only close them. In the odd event that an account becomes hidden, any threads opened by that member will disappear from the forum.

We're currently working on closing threads that have run their course such as Auctions, Casting and Outfits. We will be continuing to do so. Possibly expanding that as well.

Just so you all know......
Questioning the authority of the Moderators and asking that The Team step in when Moderators are involved in a thread issue is not taken very well.

Re: "Bumping" a thread

I suspect that is a very subjective judgement and is really about the intent or presumed intent of the poster. I don't think most people post to a thread just for the purpose of increasing the message count. On the other hand, it may look that way to others. I don't see a way to look inside other people's minds about this. Trying to police this issue must be very difficult for the moderators. If I were in their position, I'd tend to be very linnet and that would result in continuing complaints. My response is to ignore this problem since it seldom bothers me.

This is what I said yesterday & my thoughts on the situation:

"I believe we should be able, along with voting in this thread, be able to have a bit of banter and humor in this thread, along with posting the odd picture here and there. It is not as though this thread is like those continuous “The Girl with the most finest tits on VG and DB ” & “Most stylish/beautiful backside” picture threads.
I also enjoy seeing the stats member84392371 puts up every now & then as well. I think if we take away all the fun elements in threads like this members will loose interest and start not to visit the forum as much. I’m sure Totem doesn’t want that!
I think there should be encouragement to post as this is a forum after all and that is what it is for, it is here to voice your opinions and ideas & have a bit of fun within the forum rules. I think too many unnecessary rules like not being able to post the odd picture that is related to the thread, or no talk/banter between votes would spoil things a bit."


I also said I would say no more about it, but now there is an actual "Ideas" thread for the Ladder I would just like to add a couple of things.
For me this Ladder Competition is more than just a game, it has introduced me to models I hadn't previously come across like Chelsea French and Alina who are now amongst some of my favourite girls. I don't know if other members have looked at it the way I do or not?
I also think that the forum as a whole will not change when it comes to new features and filters. The idea of filters is a good idea but I cant see it happening. I would suggest myself to have an option included like "Subscribe to Thread" so you can follow your favourite threads from your profile page like other forums provide, but I cant see this type of thing happening as the forum to Totem, although a key part in customer service etc, probably isn't the main focal point of developing their business. Their product and software is!

When it comes to the "50 last posts", I do use it as it comes in useful for getting me to the latest posts in threads quicker instead of having to trawl through extra pages. On occasions I have been annoyed with topics overflowing the "50 last post" thread. For example, the thread recently on the last "Beta" version for the software (which I have no interest in) which had quite a lot of interest from other members. I realised thought that this "Beta" thread is an important part of improving the software and I just had to suck it up and move on. I think that's what we all need to do, just accept the forum for what it is and deal with it. Yeah there could be some improvements here and there but on the whole, and with a bit of self moderation on top of what the moderators do as well, it works and is fine as it is!

'nuf said! :-)

The virtuagirl ladder competition is the only reason i go to the forum and if you close it like you want to do because of 3 or 10 unhappy members ( don't tell me there are hundreds ), i will rarely go to the forum again. (sorry my English sucks and this is the reason i won't elaborate more in this thread) thank you.

My suggestion is to finish the ladder game. New rules should be put in place to speed up the process in which girls move up or are kicked off. If the purpose of the ladder game is to rank girls from best to worst, then it should end, it is only logical. No need to change the forum itself or anything else. Finish the ladder.

Virt4B,SpaveInvader, JayZ971, MattBFreq3,darkcloud, all share similar sentiments to mine. so I'll spare everyone a rehash and long posting.

• I don't use the 50 last posts (I prefer hot topics)- but acknowledge it's problem
• I like the white list/black list idea
• could the 50 last posts be further subdivided like the hop topic list
• the voting is the only thing that has made me a regular user of the forums, before that it was 6 months to a year before I would even look at it. Had no reason to visit VG unless there was an update and then only when I absolutely had to.
• I think the ratio of users VS complainers should have some weight in the end decisions. You can't please everyone, majority rules and all that. That said, there is still no reason compromise or middle ground can't be found.