The way this Mystery Envelopes works is just appaling...
I currently don't own ±100 cards (from 720 to Crystal Clear) and this game keeps giving me the same range of cards: 720p ONLY for the last 10 tries.
Statistically, that's impossible unless it's favouring the oldest 720p cards over the higher quality ones.
Which means it isn't random at all...

Edit: Are recent cards excluded from the cards you can scratch?

@BesiX - in most TGIFs the most recent cards are indeed excluded, usually the last 45 days I think, Unfortunately this never seems to get mentioned in the blurbs announcing the offers.

However, even ignoring this your comment about the statistical impossibilty of only seeing 720p cards is incorrect. It may be an improbable outcome, but not an impossible one.

Just to clarify my comment from before, my suggestion was that Totem make SECs purchasable "for people like me," meaning people that have complete collections with all the other cards. I realize that Totem is a business, and they are only going to do what makes them the most money. I totally get that. My point was that, in cases like mine, they are NOT making any money from me, when they could be.

And yes, I'd pay 200 credits for an SEC, to avoid spending FOUR HOURS OF MY LIFE (literally, that's how long it took me to get ONE of the two SECs that I was missing) scratching those stupid cards. I have literally nothing else to spend my credits on (outside of new releases), which is the same case for all the other people that have full collections.

I am not suggesting that they make them purchasable for everyone, and I'm not suggesting that they get rid of the gambling options for people that would rather spend the time than the money. As TheEmu said, suggestions that take away profits will be (justifiably) ignored, so I'm only trying to suggest how they could have made more money from ME (or people like me). Leave the gambling games in for everyone, just give those of us with all the cards an additional option.

Heck, they don't even have to make the SECs directly purchasable. Just give me an option to spend 50 to 100 credits on a guaranteed SEC scratch-off, where it randomly gives me one of the SECs that I don't have. For people with complete collections, they'll spend the credits to get all of them anyway.

The Emu Wrote:

Again this would almost certainly reduce Totem's profits. As I have repeatedly said suggestions to any business that amounts to "please reduce your profits" are not likely to be followed. 50 credits is far too low a price - as is essentially proved by the apparent fact that many people do pay far more than that, via the gambling games, with the aim of getting these cards. One measure of how much something is worth is how much others will pay for it.

No, 50 credits isn't far too low. That is $5 per card at the best credit price. Just because Totem is preying on people with gambling weaknesses, it does not mean these cards are worth more; it simply means that Totem is exploiting people because they are seeing increased profit. And they need to reconsider their strategy, because judging by the feedbck I am seeing, they are ***** off long-standing customers with their recent shenanigans... driving away their most loyal customer base. In the long run, it will backfire for them.

Then there are thse customers who defend them regardless of what they do - AHEM

And they need to reconsider their strategyu, because judging by the feedbck I am seeing, they are ***** off long-standing customers with their recent shenanigans... driving away their most loyal customer base. In the long run, it will backfire for them.

This is also true. I don't expect Totem to want to do anything that will cut into their profits, but there is a fine line to be walked between maximizing profits, and drastically ticking off your most loyal and longstanding customers. At some point, trying to maximize profits is going to meet with very diminishing returns, if you push things so far that you start to lose the very people that spend the most money on your product.

People like me are what the gambling and gaming industry refer to as "whales". We're the ones who spend STUPID amounts of money on stuff that most people wouldn't, and the ones that managers in those other industries tend to cater to.

Totem did throw us a nice bone by at least making the game playable for basically no cost (by pricing the scratch-offs at 5 credits -- basically break even with the win rate), but it is still costing us a lot of TIME. It would have been win-win for both Totem and the "whales" (at least in this case) to just give us the OPTION to buy the SECs directly.

Makes me sad reading a lot of these posts. People spend hundreds (maybe thousands) of credits to get one card they want but getting a lot of cards they don't want. I don't own a single SEC card and it doesn't ***** a bit. Any girl in an SEC card is also available on many other cards- same assets in different attire. Just walk, or run from these offers until you can aquire these cards in a reasonable and certain process.

If you have all the cards, it's almost impossible to run out of credits, but I'm starting to believe those special events cards are extremely rare, I spent over 3 hours (adding the time) and I haven't got an event card also my credits won't diminish nor will increase.

@boan000

No, 50 credits isn't far too low. That is $5 per card at the best credit price. Just because Totem is preying on people with gambling weaknesses, it does not mean these cards are worth more;

Yes, 50 credits is far too low from Totem's point of view - which is the only one that really matters. We have plenty of evidence that people are willing to pay, albeit reluctantly, much more than that via the gambling games. Why they do so I do not understand, but they do. Providing a way to reliably get the cards for 50 credits would reduce the income from the games.

It does not matter how much you or I think a card is worth, what matters is how much its sale is worth to Totem - not its selling price but its effect on profits. I would expect selling these cards at 50 credits would reduce profits.

I don't like it any more than you - and I wish Totem would change the way these things are handled, but I am realistic about the efficacity of asking a business to abandon a profitable practice.

Making them available for sale to a small group, such as @nm76 suggests, would have a lesser effect and possibly even be profitble - but might piss off even more people.

@TheEmu

Totem's point of view - which is the only one that really matters.

This is nonsense. There are two sides to every business transaction.

If, hypothetically, someone were able to pirate the same content as an alternative to being exploited by Totem, would you encourage or discourage them from doing so?

Is unrestrained greed only defensible when it's exercised professionally and not by amateurs?

Making them available for sale to a small group, such as @nm76 suggests, would have a lesser effect and possibly even be profitble - but might piss off even more people.

The mere existence of these damn SEC's already pisses off a lot of people.

If a company only maximizes its profit by exploiting the gambling addiction of customers or by deliberately attempting to surprise people (remember, the pre-checked boxes), then something is going very wrong in our society. And I'm definitely not going to join the mainstream just because that's so common these days.
As long as this damned deal with the SEC's exists, I will also express my opinion on it.

Of course I will also play here and there if I feel like it, that's what the games of chance are for and maybe get an SEC. But I don't let myself be compelled to bait, I can wait until I can redeem a SEC by joker at some point.

OUt of curiosity, what are the odds of getting a speical card? I have a full collection minus 2 special cards and a bunch of classics. I don't know the exact count, but I have bought give or take a hundred scratch cards in the last few days, am down over that time somewhere between 70 and 100 credits, and I have yet to see a special event card. I have won 25 credits 3 times, and betond that not much. Is this a waste a time, or is there a chance I can actually get those special cards?

@SetFuego

The mere existence of these damn SEC's already pisses off a lot of people.

Strange as it may seem to others, despite my saying so several times, the existance of the SECs also annoys me, as do the gambling games and particularly the combination of the two - but that has no relevance to my recognising that they are an effective business practice.

As long as this damned deal with the SEC's exists, I will also express my opinion on it.

That I have no problem with, and indeed encourage others to express their opinions. What I have problems with and criticise are those that claim, with no access to Totem's sales records, that the SECs have a negative effect on Totem's profits or who suggest ways that will decrease those profits,

Unlike us Totem can see what effect SECs have and how they affect the participation in the various TGIFs. Do those that advocate not using them as prizes, or reduce their attractiveness as prizes, really think that Totem have increased the frequency of SECs because they, Totem, lose money on them relative to that which they would make if they released them as normal cards?

@iPseudo

Yes there are two sides to every business transaction - but we are not talking about individual transactions but about the aggregate result of several thousand transactions and how introducing thousands of other transactions (e.g. by selling SECs at a fixed price) will affect the take up of the offers leading to the first set. Offering SEC cards at a low price, such as 50 credits, will reduce the number of transactions from the gambling games and hence likely to reduce profits. What matters to Totem is what price should they set for a SEC in order to maximise their overall profit.

@TheEmu

Yes there are two sides to every business transaction - but we are not talking about individual transactions...

You may not be talking about individual transactions, but many who take issue with Totem's business practices are. Your choice of which perspective to take is an arbitrary one. You also chose not to respond to the remainder of my post.

What I have problems with and criticise are those that claim, with no access to Totem's sales records, that the SECs have a negative effect on Totem's profits or who suggest ways that will decrease those profits

People choose to believe all sorts of things, unsupported by evidence. Even businesspeople are not free of that defect. As evidence, I would point to Totem's own history, the fact that they have not experienced more growth over the past 20+ years, and now resort to inflicting questionable sales tactics on what they no doubt view as a captive customer base.

''Friends'' don't continually try to pick your pockets.

And a Professors internet needs to go out right about now.

@iPseudo

It matters not one little bit whether we like the practices in question - as I have stated previously I do not like them at all. What matters is what Totem think - if they think, rightly or wrongly, that SECs and gambling are good ideas then they will use them. If they think that offering SEC at a fixed price of 50 credits is of negative value to them (because of its impact on other revenue streams) then they will not make such an offer. They may be wrong in their estimates, but it is only their estimates that that will matter in making decisions, not ours - our estimates of cards values will only affect the result of those decisions. Totem have data on which to base their decisions, we do not have access to that data, hence they are more likely to be right than we are.

I'm not sure what profound insights you believe Totem are gleaning from their sales data, when it's taken them this many years to figure out that nothing is more profitable than taking someone's money without giving anything in return.

@iPseudo - amongst the insights I think Totem get from their sales data is that the SEC cards and gambling games have been ways of increasing their profits. Nothing very profound - it should be bleedingly obvious - but it continuously surprises me that some people think that Totem should ignore what they see in the data and follow some suggestion that has no data to support it.

@nm76

And they need to reconsider their strategyu, because judging by the feedbck I am seeing, they are ***** off long-standing customers with their recent shenanigans... driving away their most loyal customer base. In the long run, it will backfire for them.
This is also true. I don't expect Totem to want to do anything that will cut into their profits, but there is a fine line to be walked between maximizing profits, and drastically ticking off your most loyal and longstanding customers. At some point, trying to maximize profits is going to meet with very diminishing returns, if you push things so far that you start to lose the very people that spend the most money on your product.

People like me are what the gambling and gaming industry refer to as "whales". We're the ones who spend STUPID amounts of money on stuff that most people wouldn't, and the ones that managers in those other industries tend to cater to.

Totem did throw us a nice bone by at least making the game playable for basically no cost (by pricing the scratch-offs at 5 credits -- basically break even with the win rate), but it is still costing us a lot of TIME. It would have been win-win for both Totem and the "whales" (at least in this case) to just give us the OPTION to buy the SECs directly.

Something to bear in mind is that in this case the "whales" are not likely to be the most profitable customers in the future. Because you already own most / all of the cards, your expenditure is going to be on just new releases (at high levels of discount) and potentially the SECs - Totem already have most of your money. Their profits are more likely to lie in new customers who will be building collections and hence will be buying more cards at lower discount rates.

Look at the current game. Let's say (hypothetically) it took you a net 20 plays to win the SEC at 5 credits a play - that's 100 credits used. For a new customer, if they had to buy the same number of plays for the SEC they would have had to spend 20 times 60+ credits - i.e. 1200 credits to win the same card. Granted, they would have acquired 80+ cards but not necessarily cards that they want.

So - Totem's future profits are likely to rely more on the new customers than the old and that will be where they focus.

People like me are what the gambling and gaming industry refer to as "whales". We're the ones who spend STUPID amounts of money on stuff that most people wouldn't, and the ones that managers in those other industries tend to cater to.

However, there is one very important difference, We are the ones who have SPENT stupid amounts of money but because we have full or almost full collections, or have all the cards we want, we no longer SPEND the most even if we want to. We are not whales, we are ex-whales (possibly ex Norwegian Blue Whales).

Quite often I see here claims that we are the best customers and Totem should do things to please us because of that - but this simply is not true. We have been good, indeed very good, customers in the past but we currently buy rather little. Each month the Hall Of Fame shows three customers who have purchased between 1000 and 2000 (occasionally more) shows in a single month as opposed to the 30 or 31 that we can manage. Each of those three customers is worth about forty or more customers like me (more if they continue to buy profligately next month). They are the best customers.

Furthermore those three, and I don't know how many other similar "live whale" customers, will have almost certainly been paying more per card than I do. There is little or nothing Totem can do to encourage me to be a better customer, their time and effort is better spent encouraging others.

@TheEmu
That is the best answer I have seen yet on this topic.
Thank you.

@iPseudo

It matters not one little bit whether we like the practices in question - as I have stated previously I do not like them at all. What matters is what Totem think - if they think, rightly or wrongly, that SECs and gambling are good ideas then they will use them. If they think that offering SEC at a fixed price of 50 credits is of negative value to them (because of its impact on other revenue streams) then they will not make such an offer. They may be wrong in their estimates, but it is only their estimates that that will matter in making decisions, not ours - our estimates of cards values will only affect the result of those decisions. Totem have data on which to base their decisions, we do not have access to that data, hence they are more likely to be right than we are.

Totem has made the "moral choice" to ignore mountains of research that point to the fact that humans are vulnerable to games of chance. The act itself releases dopamine and becomes addictive to a substantial cross-section of society. Totem is not providing any service other than trapping some customers in an addictive cycle that inevitably results in totem gaining and the customer losing. One must reflect on the fact that istripper is pornography, which in itself is addictive, and then must reflect that the company itself nor its customers are moral or bound by any promises of morality. And therefore the customer should not expect to be treated with any sort of respect or morality. We take pleasure in girls being paid to strip naked, and totem reaps the benefit as do the girls. The long discussions about what is right or wrong or good or bad are non-sequitur.

Something to bear in mind is that in this case the "whales" are not likely to be the most profitable customers in the future. Because you already own most / all of the cards, your expenditure is going to be on just new releases (at high levels of discount) and potentially the SECs - Totem already have most of your money.

However, there is one very important difference, We are the ones who have SPENT stupid amounts of money but because we have full or almost full collections, or have all the cards we want, we no longer SPEND the most even if we want to. We are not whales, we are ex-whales (possibly ex Norwegian Blue Whales).

Both @pickle1 and @TheEmu made the same argument at roughly the same time.

And I have to admit, you are both 100% correct. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right. Other than the relatively insignificant income they get from our continuing to buy new cards as they come out, Totem has no real reason to do anything to try to keep us (people with full collections) as paying customers.

I'll just go back to my corner now, and quietly continue to scratch off cards for another 4 hours trying to get that last SEC.

These games are also opportunities for people to buy cards/shows in a different way. As annoying these games are, I would bet there are customers who enjoy the games and find them relaxing and rewarding. I am not one of those customers, but I would not be surpised if they are there and just have money they dont mind spending. Having SEC cards in there is just an incentive.

I would hope that one day when there are many SECs that there would be an opportunity to directly buy one or two. Because then it becomes impossible to get the one card you actually want at some point.

@ward666999

For you, myself and others with full or nearly full collections repeatly playing this game until we won the SEC was not very expensive but for those that still had plenty of unbought cards in the store would have won fewer cash prizes on the scratch cards. This is because for most players most of the prizes for a scratch card take the form of normal cards but if none are available then they are replaced by 5 credit prizes.

As a result for us chasing a SEC this way is likely to be quite cheap (though as it is a gamble it could be expensive if you are unlucky) while for other users it is likely to be more expensive (though, again, they may be lucky and get off lightly).

I spent the 100 or so credits i had at the start of the event, recharged juts now for 500 credits, and now after winnign the SEC card im let with 372 credits: i have a full collection (besides the 480p cards) This has been pretty expensive.

Im just so tired of this SEC crap... ive been here since 2012 and i dont know how much money i have put into this, also im a premium member. Dont get me wrong i love the site and content but ***** me to buy an envelope of random cards + a scratch game in wich i once again have to gamble for a special event card is just THE WORST.

PLEASE think this through Totem.....

@robbanzjo

I don't like the SECs any more than you do, but nobody is ***** us to buy them either via this latest TGIF or any other means. We have the choice of whether to particpate or not, and if we choose to participate and pay a lot for them we signal that we are willing to pay a great deal for these cards.

@TheEmu

Well i just don't agree with the "We have the choice" talk either... thats not what this is about. Im okay with if i have to pay an extra or specific price to get a special event card but the fact that they ***** me to pay a certain amount of credits to get 5 random cards (most likely 720p or classic cards) that im 100% sure i dont want and will never even play to get one shot of the scratch game in which i then get 0 credits times two and even if i get a special event card i might very well get the one im NOT looking for.

Even if i had to pay 200 credits for a 100% chance of getting the SEC card im looking for i would without a doubt, atleast instead if this crap.

So don't start with that they are not ***** you because thats exactly what they are doing, im ***** into gambling if i want to complete the Eva collection....

bullshit is what it is!