@ComteDracula - you say

Totem must allow its best customers to acquire these cards outside games of chance.

but, contrary to your opinion, we are NOT Totem's best customers. Their best customers spend over 1000 credits per month, we spend about 300 per month. We are already rewarded by a huge discount - currently I pay abourt 80 cents per card.

but, contrary to your opinion, we are NOT Totem's best customers. Their best customers sopend over 1000 credits per month, we spend about 300 per month.

This is a bit like saying that Porsche's best customers are the ones who bought a 911 this month, not the ones who bought a 914 in 1980, a 944 in 1990, a 911 in 2000 and a Cayenne in 2010.

Actually I made a mistake - the best customers spend 10000, not 1000, credits a month. It makes no difference to Totem that the group of "best customers" changes each month. If yoy were Totem which group would you try to encourage?

@PascalsWager

After reading the other thread, I'm disappointed to hear you caved.

Me too, I'm disapointed in myself; I feel like what a $10 whore must feel like... I ***** that I am helping to perpetuate this messed up system, but you don't know how badly I wanted that Red Fox card, LOL. And the thought of missing another hot redhead was too much to bear. I'm a weak man, weak I say.

I am not at all happy about having no choice but to gamble to get cards I wanted. I lost my reload bonus and spent 66 extra credits on the Black Friday SEC and to get the Red Fox SEC. I know others made out much worse, and that there are even chronic gamblers out there who are being unethically exploited.

This syetem needs to end. As it is, there are still two SECs I lack, and I await Totem making good on their promise to reward loyalty to obtain Joker cards because all these gambling events do for me is to ***** me more and more from the company. I differ from you in that I will not simply temporarily boycott a sytem I do not like, but will part ways from a company and no longer ever give them any patronage at all. I have been a Totem customer since the beginning and love their product, so this thought saddens me greatly. But last holiday season this nearly happened; this year, however, it seems they actually increased the odds of winning. So while I feel ***** and resentful, there is the ***** salve of better winning odds. Still, this Black Friday event has been another wedge between me and the company.

This is a bit like saying that Porsche's best customers are the ones who bought a 911 this month, not the ones who bought a 914 in 1980, a 944 in 1990, a 911 in 2000 and a Cayenne in 2010.

BOOM! You nailed it. This perfectly reflects my thoughts towards those who say that customers with incomplte collections are better customers than those who own all cards because they are spending more at any given time.

@theEmu I agree with you. The financial motivation must be significant. If I were them, what would I do, truly? Financially, I'd want to know how large an impact the SEC cards and associated gambling were having on my profits. Would the 10000 credit players shift to 8000, or 1000? I have no idea from the outside.

Then as I counted my money, I'd look at the forums and I'd see the dissatisifcation of people who'd basically built my company, having spent 10 years buying cards through normal means. And went to bed at night, I'd ponder the cognitive dissonance of knowing I was making some of those people very frustrated and angry based on my profit maximizing choices. Those thoughts would bounce around between moments where I pondered the people who were spending $12,000/year, and how their families and children would feel if they knew they were basically problem gamblers when it came to naked ladies at the base of their screen.

I'm not a problem gambler. Even about naked ladies. So if I ran this, would I think, gosh I'm lucky my business has all these idiots throwing money at me? Sadly, I admit the answer is maybe. But I wouldn't be proud of it. I'd probably distract myself by remembering the days where I felt lucky to be in a job where I got to see the same beautiful creatures we drool over, stripping live, in my office.

Pascal, damn you're even more cynical than I am! LOL.

but, contrary to your opinion, we are NOT Totem's best customers. Their best customers spend over 1000 credits per month, we spend about 300 per month. We are already rewarded by a huge discount - currently I pay abourt 80 cents per card.

@Emu, I’m one of their best customers, because I buy everything Totem gets out, and I can’t buy more than they can sell me.

@Emu, je fais partie de leurs meilleurs clients, car j'achète tout ce que Totem sort, et je ne peux en acheter plus que ce qu'ils sont capable de me vendre.

@boan000

Your analogy is very flawed,

A better one would be to compare someone who bought one Porce every four or five years with someone who bought 5 Porches in one year (and surprisingly such customers do seem to exist).

Says the guy who thinks there are more than two genders...

BTW, it wasn't my analogy.

And you would do well to well to consider what the Count has just said. The best customers are those who buy everything a company sells.

Says the guy who thinks there are more than two genders...

That is misrepresenting what I said in a major way - in those posts I said that gender was a continuum.

@theEmu I agree with you. The financial motivation must be significant. If I were them, what would I do, truly? Financially, I'd want to know how large an impact the SEC cards and associated gambling were having on my profits. Would the 10000 credit players shift to 8000, or 1000? I have no idea from the outside.

Then as I counted my money, I'd look at the forums and I'd see the dissatisifcation of people who'd basically built my company, having spent 10 years buying cards through normal means. And went to bed at night, I'd ponder the cognitive dissonance of knowing I was making some of those people very frustrated and angry based on my profit maximizing choices. Those thoughts would bounce around between moments where I pondered the people who were spending $12,000/year, and how their families and children would feel if they knew they were basically problem gamblers when it came to naked ladies at the base of their screen.

I'm not a problem gambler. Even about naked ladies. So if I ran this, would I think, gosh I'm lucky my business has all these idiots throwing money at me? Sadly, I admit the answer is maybe. But I wouldn't be proud of it. I'd probably distract myself by remembering the days where I felt lucky to be in a job where I got to see the same beautiful creatures we drool over, stripping live, in my office.

People are "stupid". They do not always or often think clearly. This happens with any person who spends thousands of dollars for thousands of cards on their desktop. But it is taken to an extreme with people who must have every card even though they haven't watched thousands of them in the last year. They are collectors of a thing they can't even resell, and are obsessive about it. A customer has no right to own everything that a company offers. If I showed up at a car dealership and was pissed off because the lamborghini was out of my price range I would be laughed out of the building. Fortunately, totem is selling normal cards for exhorbinant prices. Normal minded people would ignore this and say that totem is stupid and just lost money because that card cost money to produce...but the reality is people spend thousands of credits for a normal card. That is not totems fault. They aren't actually selling special cards, they are selling normal cards and people can't control themselves. I understand that a pandoras box may have been opened, and entire sets could fall under special categories... at some point totem will go too far like many gaming companies have...

@TheEmu, ummmm.... what?

@boan000 - read what I actually said in the posts that you seem to be refering to - and read up on the science rather than the simplified versions you see in elementry popular science books and basic school level texts. In particular learn to distinguish between intersex and transsex,

I quoted the science to you last year. Gender is a binary construct, always has been, always will be. Science is not on your side in this, and I doubt it will ever be. Do you want to know who is on your side? Those who see gender dysphoria as dictating reality. IOW, the insane.

I agree with you @boan000 ,

Totem must allow its best customers to acquire these cards outside games of chance.

This would be true recognition, for their loyalty, and would encourage people to acquire the entire collection, to finally get those cards.

Obviously those who would like to obtain these cards by the "Gambling", could always prevail of this means.

Following games of chance, and after a while, those who do not have the entire collection, could also acquire these cards with a cost of acquisition, which could go down, depending on the number of cards that people have.

Totem gives 45% off, plus 30% off for reload, plus 20% and 4k for premium...so the "best" customers can get a 25 credit card for less than 10 credits if they do the full 1320 reload bonus....you are looking at nearly 60% off compared to a new customer. And it is obvious many people would fill their collections if each card was still 25 credits. Stop acting entitled to something. You paid money for cards. You have access to the cards...totem doesn't owe you anything. You have thousands of cards to enjoy...enjoy them.

But let's not derrail The Count's thread. If you want to argue some more, by all means dig up the thread from last year and revive it. Maybe others will chime in to school ya...

@theEmu There are only so many car(d)s to buy. So the people who buy 5 "cars" per month for any length of time are gambling the rest (away). Not "buying."

Work with me on the math for a second. Call it 25 Credits/ Card. ~4350 Cards. 4350*25=108,750 credits. Anything beyond 11 months of "best customer" behavior can't possibly be "buying" cards. It's money that's spent on nothing but scratches or wheel pulls. So we have two options. The "best" customers are either those heavy spenders on cards who roll over every 11 months, OR: They're problem gamblers past their first year.

Either way, they can't be Porsche buying sheiks who purchase 20 wheels a month for more than a year because there are no more wheels to buy.

I guess I don't really understand your motivation defending the company on this. Are they behaving rationally? Sure. Are the gamblers behaving rationally? No. Are they knowingly profiting from psychological ***** of weak minded people? Yes. Is it flat out wrong? No. Is it shady? Yes.

I have no SEC cards. Never spent a dime on scratches or pulls. I'm not begging for SEC cards. I'm just voicing my dissent on what I (and others) perceive as questionable behavior, and will continue to do so as long as I observe it.

I think those defending Totem on this are either rationalizing their own behavior as acceptable, when deep down they know they have disappointed themselves, or are in Totem's pocket in some way. Or maybe they truly believe it is OK to pay severa hundred credits on one card? Maybe these cards truly do have that much value to them? I guess it's possible.

@PascalsWager = As I have said many times I am not defending Totem's behaviour, only explaining it.

What would be stupid for a company is to turn its back on their best customers by not allowing other alternatives to purchase some of their products, than by gambling.

Ce qui serait stupide pour une compagnie, c'est d'en venir à se mettre à dos leurs meilleurs clients en ne permettant pas d'autres alternatives d'achat de certains de leurs produits, que par les jeux de hasard.

@ComteDracula - but they do now provide ways other than gambling to obtain the special event cards (and for most of them always did). These alternatives may be expensive, but they exist.

@PascalsWager = As I have said many times I am not defending Totem's behaviour, only explaining it.

We all get it. Everyone understands the why. Deep down in our guts, we know exactly what's happening. In fact, that's precisely we're annoyed.

I think those defending Totem on this are either rationalizing their own behavior as acceptable, when deep down they know they have disappointed themselves, or are in Totem's pocket in some way.

Correct.

@ComteDracula - but they do now provide ways other than gambling to obtain the special event cards (and for most of them always did). These alternatives may be expensive, but they exist.

And what are these ways @Emu? because I buy deals that include special event cards, such as the forward calendar.

However, I do not consider that having to participate in slot machines and scratch cards is an alternative, because it is gambling.


Et quels sont ces moyens @Emu ? car j'achète les offres qui inclus les cartes évènements spéciaux, comme le calendrier de l'avant.

Par contre je ne considère pas que de devoir participer aux machine à sous et aux cartes à gratter est une alternative, car c'est du gambling.

First " special event card" i'm getting.. all because I bought the Advent calender. In all honesty I wish it was the Ginebra Bellucci bikini card...Oh well....

@ComteDracula - for the latest special event card you just had to pay, not play. As I said, expensive but no gambling involved unless you chose to do so.

Maybe Santa will make it up to me and I'll get the last... for now... Eva Elfie maid card. Now that would be a very Merry Christmas!