This thread has been created originally by Wyldanimal to discuss about different erotic levels as we understand them.
So it should be his decision to close the thread or keep it running.

Btw your personal preference always matters as long as you do not have it as the only right one.

No need to close anything. Unless the OP wants it closed.

If some can't discuss here with any logic anymore or just got pissed off, please direct your attention to other topics.

This has been a civil discussion and should remain the same for anybody that might want to participate.

All opinions are worthy of respect and, as long as you respect the other's points of view, a heated discussion is all good unless it degrades to a flame war.

By the way, a flame war usually starts with someone posting something to blow up a topic and I'm looking at you: dy693927he

Don't make me look any harder.

Hemingford said very clear something that I liked(" But there's absolutely no possibility for me to check the content of each show before buying it.")

There is nothing new.Everybody knows you can`t see how many clips are Level 1,Level 2 and so on.You can see this only after you brought the card.

We have some informations regarding cards before to buy them,but the truth is we don`t have enough informations about the clips.

My suggestion is when they(Totem) will release the cards to say some informations regarding clips.More informations are always welcomed:)
Example:
Card 1145 has 20 clips splitted in:
5 clips Level 1
5 clips Level 2
3 clips Level 3
5 clips Level 4
2 clips Level 5.

My suggestion I think is not good for Totem,because could affect the sales of the cards,but it will be good for the members,because it will be more less unsatisfied customers.

Of course when you have a subscription,it doesn`t matter because you`ll have random cards,but if you want to buy selective cards(the cards that only you like) with credits,you could be unsatisfied after you buy the card(example given by Hemingford with Lola Tyler / All Nighter).
The conclusion is that he was dissapointed regarding that card.
Let`s don`t forget the most important thing from this story is dissapointment of Hemingford.The question is what can we do to not happen anymore this thing?
Well.the solution it could be my suggestion.

I`m aware that Totem maybe will not have enough time and space to give such details of the cards released,but we can do something else.

Any VIP(only VIPs who bought the cards can do this) member who bought the released cards ,could give details of the cards released for the other members who didn`t buy yet the cards.
Somebody could open for example another thread named let`s say "Informations about released cards" where to give details of the cards.This thing will resolve many "problems" in my opinion ,because the number of satisfied customers will increase and the number of dissapointed customers will decrease.The sales also will decrease because the customers will be more selective with the cards bought through credits.
We can resolve many "problems" in this way.You`ll know what to expect from the cards.This thing will not resolve only dissapointments of those one who like more X-Rated or soft clips,also those one who don`t like cage clips,swing clips,pole clips etc.

It`s easy to say "if you don`t like the card,don`t buy it".How can you do this if you don`t have enough informations with DETAILS regarding cards released??Well,this thing will end up with a dissapointment AFTER you bought the card.

This suggestion will be for the benefit of members ,but NOT FOR Totem.
I`m sure anyway,Totem`s concern is to have all the time satisfied loyal customers.
The prouve is they released cards for every taste of each of us.So,you can choose if you`ll have enough detailed informations about the cards.

Don`t get me wrong.I don`t want to heat up this debate.
I`m aware I could upset plenty members,Mods and some people from Totem Team with this post.This is not my intention.....,

.....,BUT I always aprreciated at Totem and Mods the fact that you can speak free all the time,no matter what if you have good words for Totem or critics.

Like Rex said long time ago to me,critics sometimes are good to have more satisfied customers all the time,to see where they were wrong(IF they were wrong),what they can do to please you,based on your taste:)

@Hemingford, on Totem`s forums,YOU CAN ALWAYS SPEAK FREE.I`m the prouve that Mods never censored my posts,they let you express your opinions(no matter what are they).Maybe sometimes me and others
upset the Mods and Totem with our posts,but this is another thing.I confirm they never censored my posts when I had critics regarding Totem or different opinions than majority:)
All the time they(Mods) warned me when I overreacted or when I had some conflicts with some members:)

Please, I have a suggestion for Mods.IF any Mod think this debate became "TOO HOT",to close this thread.
IF any Mod think I overreacted somehow with my posts,to warn me here on this thread,not through PM.
I hope my posts will not offence anyone.I just said what I wanted to say.That`s all.And believe me,when I will have something to say,I will say it:)

__________________________________________________________________

Example of my suggestion:

"Informations about VG Card No.1610 Lola Taylor/ All-Nighter"

Informations regarding clips ,you can see them ONLY if you are VIP member(I guess) and only after you bought the card.

According to Totem we have 20 clips (3 demo clips and 17 full clips),splitted in:

• 3 clips NO Nudity (all 3 are demos)(unbelieveble,not even one full clip with clothes on)
• 1 clip Topless
• 2 clips Nudity
• 15 clips Full Nudity

Details of the clips:

• a1610_0101 No Nudity (Demo)
• a1610_1101 No Nudity , Close Shot,Over Taskbar (Demo)
• a1610_1401 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_1402 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_1403 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_1404 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_1405 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_2101 No Nudity Close Shot,over Taskbar (Demo)
• a1610_2401 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_2402 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_2403 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_2404 Full Nudity , Close Shot,over Taskbar
• a1610_512201 Topless , Cage
• a1610_512402 Full Nudity Cage
• a1610_512403 Full Nudity Cage
• a1610_522404 Full nudity Cage
• a1610_64301 Nudity IN/OUT
• a1610_64302 Nudity IN/OUT
• a1610_64403 Full Nudity IN/OUT
• a1610_64404 Full Nudity IN/OUT

As you can see,we don`t have any X-rated clip and we don`t have not any single full clip No Nudity(with clothes on)

With the informations oferred by Totem before buying the card(preview,reviews,the time of the show,etc) and with these informations,decide if you want this card or not.:)

This could be easily accomplished if one of the QA members did this for all new releases and totem made those comments sticky's, a clips list like shown above ;)

or something similar, just abrief list though in the comments as listing every clip would make for too larger post at the top ;)

@Ricky78 and vixen01 Yes you're absolutely right, I was disappointed, maybe a little pissed off too and I apologize if I did offend anyone with my postings here that wasn't my intention to do. I wasn't ***** about censorship from Mods just to make it clear. It just makes me go crazy when people are selfish and trivialise ones problems and arguments and just go after their own goals, thats all. (And I'm not speaking of Mods here again)
I do welcome your idea with those breakdown short info list as shown above in the example of Mia Sollis. That would be a great thing to do for selective card buyers like me without vip status. But of course I do have appreciation for Totem and their motives of selling cards and making money too...guess I have to select even harder than before if I don't want another Disappointment like Lola Taylor's "All nighter"...

Re: This could be easily accomplished if one of the QA members did this for all new releases and totem made those comments sticky's, a clips list like shown above

That wouldn't require any effort on the part of the moderators. It could be fully automated with 1-2 hours of programming effort. It's really up to Totem.

Dorsai it is members that make up the QA team like myself, so it could not be fully automated, there are 8 of us, four of those are mods and four are just forum members who have been chosen for testing.

Thumbs up vote for Vixen01's idea of a brief breakdown of the clips. I believe this, coupled with the review style comments posted for the card will help members make better decisions if they are spending credits on purchasing cards. Overall, I doubt it will dent sales adversely as happy customers keep coming back for more!

by vip vixen01 - 6 hour(s) ago
...
just a brief list though in the comments


by vip Dorsai6 - 2 hour(s) ago
...
It could be fully automated
...

/////////////
Combining the Two Ideas

I like that....
When a Card is released a Card Comment could be Automatically created that Lists either,
a Brief list of the number of Clips of each level,
or
The Full List of Included Clip names.

The more I think about it...this is a great idea indeed! I would really appreciate the work. If you're willing to do it let me know if I can give any help or support or feedback or whatever! :-)

I agree. It should require fairly minimal analysis and programming and you could even use volunteer users to check the created clip list text against cards (Totem know which ones we own after all!). I'd offer to help and it would provide a real improvement to the quality of information available to the user base on deciding whether to buy a card. I've bought ones in the past based demos and a few comments only to be disappointed at the balance of clips.

I'd only add that if the duration as well as the number of / or detailed list of clips could be included? That too is a known value for each clip so shouldn't present any real extra difficulty.

I've refrained from adding to this thread, even though the thread was started because of a post I made somewhere else that Wyldanimal used here to start this thread. But I feel I need to add some comments to it now.

First, my intent was NEVER to try to dictate what kind of content Totem produces or distributes. And any accusations along that line, whether direct or indirect, I find very disrespectful. My post was intended to try to RESOLVE all the previous disagreements (which are really only different opinions expressed about the likes and dislikes of various members). My point is (was) the same thing many have expressed in this thread...no "rating system" of clips will ever satisfy every member.

And that's why I don't think even listing the number of different kinds of clips contained in a show will resolve those differences of opinions. Someone in a previous post indicated why that wouldn't work. A clip ends up being rated at the HIGHEST level of "eroticism" based on if there is ANY of that level of eroticism in the clip. So for instance, a clip could contain 3 minutes of only "Full Nudity" but if the model "inserts something" (like a finger) for only 3 or 4 seconds at the very end of the clip, the clip will get an "Explicit" or maybe an "X-Rated" rating. That alone will cause some people to "*****" about whether the clip is even rated "correctly". Think about it. Some "X-Rated" clips START OUT with the model already doing "X-Rated" things and continue that way for the entire clip. Other clips start out with the model in "No Nudity" (fully clothed) then progress in the clip through ALL of the possible clip ratings. So if the model clip only has the last 10% of the clip showing "X-Rated" content, the clip is still rated "X-Rated". It gets the highest content rating included in the entire clip. But that makes sense, as the model "stripped" during that clip too. But some members could ***** that the clip didn't contain ENOUGH "X-Rated" content. So I honestly don't think ANY clip rating system will ever be considered "accurate" by the entire membership here.

My original post was designed to ask the question, "What is the INTENDED difference between VG and Desk Babes?" Both products have single model cards and Duo model cards. I was curious as to what Totem's expectations were for models in each product. Obviously Totem can decide whether to put a model's "single" or "duo" card in one of the two products. I was curious what criteria they used to decide which product to distribute the card, whether it be a "single" model card or a "duo" model card.

One other thing, and this is NOT intended to be a "flame" against any member here. But people ***** different concepts of what "Free Speech" is in different venues. Totem has NEVER allowed anybody here to "say whatever I want to say" here as a forum member. And rightfully so. This forum is not a Democracy, nor does it guarantee anybody "Freedom of Speech". No members voted for or elected the leaders of Totem, nor the Mods appointed by Totem. This forum is a Private Organization with "rules" established by the "owners" of the forum. They can publish guidelines of expected conduct for anyone who uses this forum, and decide what can be "freely said" or not. And that's the way it should be. Don't think for a moment that you have UNLIMITED freedom to say whatever you want here, whenever you want to say it. That is a very wrong interpretation.

I'm satisfied with the content of BOTH VG and Desk Babes. I wasn't trying to "dictate" nor "*****" my own views on anybody here, nor change the content or the way Totem distributes THEIR product.

Oki, to make it clear.

All members posting an idea, suggestion, critic or question, is and always will be something welcomed as long as it is relevant, logical, respectful and related to the product in any aspect, and there's nothing wrong with have some fun too.

If you don't like a suggestion or disagree with someone's views, debate about the ideas or views, not about the member that posted the idea or concept.

A "flame word", "piss match" and other terms like that, are to describe when users start to imply, directly or indirectly that the users posting are "this" or "that" because of their views and slowly, but surely, the discussions get off-topic, the original purpose gets lost and users start throwing punches at each other.

Discussion is highly encouraged, disrespect is not tolerated.

Is not about "winning" an argument or defeating the other, is about sharing thoughts about the product and at times, out of discussions like this one, some things catch Totem's attention and are incorporated.

So let's all have fun debating about the matter that obviously interest us plenty, the world of VG. ;)

FalconAF - I think listing the number of clips at the different levels has been a suggestion born out of comments made that more information about the card contents would be helpful.

It is a case of the post wandering off topic from your original question though and I'm guilty of carrying on commenting here about this idea which would be far better debated in the Ideas section of the forum.

Can a mod look and see if it is possible to split the relevant 'List the number and types of clip' postings to a new thread in the Ideas forum, or failing that, let us know that we'll have to start a new thread over there to repeat the ideas expressed here?

Thanks.

We can't split topics, sorry.

But feel free to open a topic elsewhere about that particular matter if you like. ;)

Thank you. I'll copy and paste the salient posts from everyone when I get a moment into a new thread in the 'Ideas' section so it doesn't get lost among the discussions around the original topic.

Greetings & Salutations to all:

@Oquijan & Ricky78 -- I agree with you and to extend on your point ...


I know I am a VIP member here (and still probably considered one of the newest VIP members here)and I try to be considerate to everybody because lets face it, when you are within a forum setting that is not a video chat you only know the friends and other members on this forum (and others [free, paid, or otherwise]), by how you converse through your keyboard and visualize via your art (for those of us who are artists). There will *ALWAYS BE* a type of signature writing (and programming) style that is a unique quality for each of the ~20M members here at VG/DB. The more you read about what the member posts and *how* it is posted, the more each of us understands how that member thinks and reacts to what we type and we tend to adhere, subconsciously, to why and what we type and to whom we type it to. I am taking a leap of faith here and boldly stating that no one here wants to get into a royal "***** match" with anybody, seriously? It is more tiring to physically and mentally draining to type out a "***** match" than to continue one verbally and face-to-face. Most of us who are well conversed in "forum etiquette" will understand what I am saying. Because this is an adult forum you can say pretty much anything here without royally ***** off the Moderators of this site, but you would not on a more open-to-the-public forum, like a Windows or a Linux forum.


@FalconAF -- I have always been curious as to the differences between the VG DB models cards and what makes Totem introduce them into one program or the other, myself. Does Totem let the model(s) do what they want within a set of parameters given to them within the contract they sign and before they videotape, and then depending upon the "spice factor" (this also includes what the model states as well because VG clips do not have volume; unless that changed recently), choose if it is a DB or VG card, or does Totem leave it up to a specific selection of members and moderators to decide which model(s) go to what program?


Well, my opinion, on this subject of VG going X-Rated is a positive one. I like the "spiciness" of it. Totem seems to have a good eye on the fact on how much to add within a tactful and pleasing way, without it getting out of control. (Now FORGiVE me please, but in one card I saw some fisting!??? Or was that in a DB card? ;) I have almost 1200 cards, and I was pleasingly surprised when I downloaded some of the newer models' cards and saw the "spice levels" have risen.)

I think that the rising level of spice has mostly to do with the fact that, maybe, IMHO, the majority of the members wanted something more to continue their interests. It is either this or that Totem is "updating" for the current times we are in...

Just my three-and-a-half cents worth...

Cheers!

Spirit Wolfe

Haven't sampled this topic before today. IMHO Will S summed up this discussion quite well when he penned "Much Ado About Nothing." I enjoy watching attractive girls take off clothing. In every one of my 1600 cards I get to see what I enjoy. Therefore I have nothing to ***** about. Good job, Totem.

Good Lord, did I actually spend THAT much money purchasing over 1600 cards? Must have been when I had a paying job!

I have no idea when however since they can be completely nude and it's an optional purchase is there a real issue? They could have nude male models doing porn as far as I am concern as so long as it's an option and don't have to see it if I filter it out. I am straight but I see this question is more like "Why do I have the option to see/buy something I do not wish to see?"
The answer is 'you don't.'
Self control is a good thing and something lost to the younger generation apparently. Sorry this company is not the United States of holding our hands.

Actually they do have VirtuaGuy content but agreed there is no real issue and this thread was gathering cobwebs nicely ;)

Nice necro....

And then..... what will be the next step to ruining this lovely product???
Love Totems work and the way they are driving the things,

I like the fact that VG cards have some x-rated clips in them. Especially now that we get far less new DB cards.

Like many others mentioned, I just wish we had more information about the cards' content before buying them. Like what kind of clips are there and what level of eroticism there are.

The previous VG softward at least vaguely told you that the "card contains x-rated clips", the new software doesn't even do that which is very unfortunate.